Trump's War on Trans Rights

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Raptor
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02 Sep 2017, 10:20 am

cyberdad wrote:

Raptor wrote:

First you ask a trollish question:
Then are surprised when I give a trollish answer.

Actually am not surprised. You fulfill your caricature online rather well. BTW masquerading your
"values" as having fun at (us) liberal's expense merely makes your intentions transparent.
But please...I'm sure you will go ahead doing it anway whether we know it or not...

Again, this was trolling on your part. I've gotten TOS's for far lesser acts that were labeled as trolling.

cyberdad wrote:

Raptor wrote:

When i read stuff like this it makes me even prouder to have served, and makes me want to encourage others to join up.

What exactly made you proud? brown nosing up the rich and powerful?

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ASS-P
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02 Sep 2017, 10:21 am

...While the absolute cut-off date for joinging the U.S, military is 34, IIRC, in practice the military doesn't much, in this era, want 31-year-olds barring them being really, really, accomplished or possessing some rare skill, I believe.

omPrincess"]

Campin_Cat wrote:

MushroomPrincess wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

That's right----NO one's individual rights are a priority to us (American military); ESPECIALLY, because I think you're British!! Our (American military) priority is ALL the peoples of America, and our country, FIRST!!

Also, if you haven't been taking female hormones, you still, probably, have the strength and aggressiveness of a man, and could defend YOURSELF, and help more, in the physical defense of others!!

I'm not British. Why do you keep thinking I am?

I'm not gonna tell you how I got the idea, cuz I got the idea, from some things you've said, in the past; and, if I tell you what those things were, you'll stop saying them, if you're trying to dupe people, here----and, if you ARE trying to dupe people, here, I want you to keep doin' it, so you'll get caught, by others.

I'm American, and this conversation has just taken a turn for the extremely silly.[/quote]

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XFilesGeek
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02 Sep 2017, 1:14 pm

Raptor wrote:

XFilesGeek wrote:

Raptor wrote:

XFilesGeek wrote:

Raptor wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

I'm not hijacking anything.

I'm talking about my view----that trans people shouldn't be excluded from the military because they are transsexual.

Chelsea Manning was booted out of the military for being a real hero. Now she uses the internet to fight against people who actually deserve our wrath.

If you are in the US military, you are fighting for the rich and powerful so that the oppressed can suffer more. Unfortunately, some youths are getting into the military just because the economy is crap and there are few other job opportunities.

I'm essentially saying that transpeople shouldn't want to be in the military. Nobody should want to be an American soldier or an American cop at this point in history, since they serve the forces of capitalism and white supremacy.

When i read stuff like this it makes me even prouder to have served, and makes me want to encourage others to join up.

*fistbump*

We've had a few interesting threads about military service here over the years. Some claimed, almost frantically, that all that people in the military do is kill and torture people. Another emphatically said that going into the military would guaranty certain death or maiming.

Exactly.

Clueless people who have never served and are (usually) jealous of the perks we veterans receive.

This:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

Quote:

Crab mentality, sometimes referred to as crabs in the bucket (also barrel, basket or pot), is a way of thinking best described by the phrase, "if I can't have it, neither can you." The metaphor refers to a bucket of crabs. Individually, the crabs in the story could easily escape from the bucket, but instead they are described as grabbing at each other in a useless "king of the hill" competition which prevents any from escaping and ensures their collective demise. The analogy in human behavior is claimed to be that members of a group will attempt to negate or diminish the importance of any member who achieves success beyond the others, out of envy, spite, conspiracy, or competitive feelings, to halt their progress.

They don't want someone doing something they're afraid to do since that person they're trying to hold back will achieve something they don't (can't) have.

Thanks.

I like it.

I'll have to remember that analogy.

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MushroomPrincess
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02 Sep 2017, 3:04 pm

Raptor wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

Quote:

They don't want someone doing something they're afraid to do since that person they're trying to hold back will achieve something they don't (can't) have.

So, for example, could we consider the crab bucket mentality a possible motivation for Trump's trans military ban? Wanting to prevent others from serving because he was always too afraid to? There are countless trans people who would do anything to serve their country (including myself!) but a fat sleazy draft-dodger is the one calling the shots.

cyberdad
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02 Sep 2017, 7:35 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:

Another elephant in the room (In Trump's case he can barely move without banging into a pachyderm) is why the military (and ex-military) think that Trump is somehow on their side. He couldn't care less judging from his treatment of dead American soldier Humayan Khan and his family. The idea that a draft dogder who used his father's connections to get out of serving in Vietnam can ridicule "real" war heroes like John McCain and now make executive orders on whom can serve in the military is frankly quite laughable and embarrassing. Anyone associated with the military who still supports this goose should hang their heads.

Last edited by cyberdad on 02 Sep 2017, 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kraichgauer
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02 Sep 2017, 7:45 pm

cyberdad wrote:

MushroomPrincess wrote:

Another elephant in the room (In Trump's case he can barely move without banging into a pachyderm) is why the military (and ex-military) think that Trump is somehow on their side. He couldn't care less judging from his treatment of dead American soldier Humayan Khan and his family. The idea that a draft dogder who used his father's connections to get out of serving in Vietnam can ridicule "real" war heroes like John McCain and now make executive orders on whom can serve in the military is frank quite laughable and embarrassing. Anyone associated with the military who still supports this goose should hang their heads.

Or have a dead goose hung from their heads! :lol:

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Campin_Cat
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03 Sep 2017, 11:38 am

MushroomPrincess wrote:

There are countless trans people who would do anything to serve their country (including myself!) but a fat sleazy draft-dodger is the one calling the shots.

Then why haven't you enlisted, before, in the 13 years, you've been eligible?

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MushroomPrincess
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03 Sep 2017, 12:21 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:

MushroomPrincess wrote:

There are countless trans people who would do anything to serve their country (including myself!) but a fat sleazy draft-dodger is the one calling the shots.

Then why haven't you enlisted, before, in the 13 years, you've been eligible?

... Because I'm trans, like I just said. It hasn't been legal for me to serve for most of my adult life; the ban on openly-trans service members was only lifted in 2016 under Obama.

Campin_Cat
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03 Sep 2017, 1:03 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

MushroomPrincess wrote:

There are countless trans people who would do anything to serve their country (including myself!) but a fat sleazy draft-dodger is the one calling the shots.

Then why haven't you enlisted, before, in the 13 years, you've been eligible?

... Because I'm trans, like I just said. It hasn't been legal for me to serve for most of my adult life; the ban on openly-trans service members was only lifted in 2016 under Obama.

LOLOLOL I KNEW you were gonna say that----but, here's the thing.....

IMO, the operative term, here, is "openly trans"----had you chosen, to, you could've served, as a "closeted trans". You said you would "do anything" to serve your country----so, "anything", IMO, means that you would go-back to dressing / acting like a man, so you could serve.

MushroomPrincess
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03 Sep 2017, 1:47 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:

IMO, the operative term, here, is "openly trans"----had you chosen, to, you could've served, as a "closeted trans". You said you would "do anything" to serve your country----so, "anything", IMO, means that you would go-back to dressing / acting like a man, so you could serve.

You think being trans is a choice.

I have nothing more to say to you, your lack of empathy is revolting.

Campin_Cat
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03 Sep 2017, 6:19 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

You think being trans is a choice.

I have nothing more to say to you, your lack of empathy is revolting.

I didn't say being Trans, was a choice----but dressing / acting like you're a man, TEMPORARILY, to serve your country, IMO, COULD be a CHOICE. You're the one who said you'd "do anything"----apparently, you WON'T.

I equate "being Trans" to "being gay", in this sense. I have several gay relatives, and every single one of them, has had to "act straight", at some time, or another----either to gain / keep employment, keep their kids, or just to not be KILLED; and, guess what else? SERVE in the military!!

You're not the first person who's ever had a rough life, because of confusion, fear of violence, feeling of being unwanted / unaccepted, and so-forth (I mean, all anyone has to be, is an ASDer - and look how many of us, are on this website, ALONE)----and, you're CERTAINLY not the first person who has ever had to hide, what / who you are (and, before you say it, I'm not saying you said you were----but, you sure do ACT like it). Like I've said several times, on this site: Almost ANY group has their albatross----the blacks have slavery, the gays have Stonewall, the Indians (Native Americans) have "The Trail of Tears", the Jewish have the Holocaust; and, ALL of those groups, have "hidden"! !

Blacks have been passing for whites (hiding - not been "openly black"), for many, MANY decades. Gays have been passing for straights (hiding - not been "openly gay"), for many, MANY decades. As I've said, before, I was instructed on a regular basis, as a kid, not to tell anyone we were Indian (hide it - not be "openly Indian")----ESPECIALLY, because I was a girl, and as had been going-on, for many, MANY decades, everybody and their brother was gonna wanna have sex with me (and, if I didn't give it to them, they'd TAKE it). And, until you have met / talked-to a Holocaust survivor, who has had to hide that they were Jewish (and then have had a life-long journey of hiding their shame, of being in those camps), and run your fingers over their tattoo, and looked into their ashamed eyes, as *I* have, don't be cryin' me a river (again, that's what you ACT-like, you're doin')----and, if you HAVE met one of them, and STILL think you deserve some kind of special empathy, for your special circumstance, then.....

Who, exactly, is lacking in empathy?

Practically everything that seeps-into public awareness, has to go-through a process, before it is accepted, even by a FRACTION----whether it's a disease (like HIV/AIDS, or Multiple Sclerosis, or Cancer, etc.), or a lifestyle (ie, nudists), or a being (like gays, and Trans-people). We have several advocates, here, on WP, who stand-up for Trans-rights----BUT, they don't beat us about the head and face, with it, so-to-speak, as you, sometimes, do. IMO, the way for people to gain acceptance, is by informing, NOT by taking a defensive stance, and spewing "venom" (I know you don't think you do this - but, I ask you to please, look in the mirror).

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03 Sep 2017, 6:26 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:

MushroomPrincess wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

You think being trans is a choice.

I have nothing more to say to you, your lack of empathy is revolting.

People shouldn't have to hide who they are, though. The problem wasn't with them, but with the societies that saw them as less than human, whether they be trans, gay, black, Jewish, etc.

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cyberdad
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03 Sep 2017, 11:06 pm

I'm not sure if you knew why mushroom princess felt you were being a little cruel at her expense?
She told you she was Trans and you responded with this

Campin_Cat wrote:

LOLOLOL I KNEW you were gonna say that

That does come across as you laughing at her for being Trans

You then say this

Campin_Cat wrote:

You're not the first person who's ever had a rough life, because of confusion, fear of violence, feeling of being unwanted / unaccepted, and so-forth

So I can paraphrase this as : Suck it up (mushroom) princess, I don;t care what you have been through because other people have also had a bad time

and then you say this

Campin_Cat wrote:

Blacks have been passing for whites (hiding - not been "openly black"), for many, MANY decades. Gays have been passing for straights (hiding - not been "openly gay"), for many, MANY decades.

.
Which is kind of like saying we have been subjecting minorities to discrimination for years and its socially acceptable to get discriminated against so you better hide your trans-sexual nature

LoveNotHate
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04 Sep 2017, 7:33 am

Campin_Cat wrote:

MushroomPrincess wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

You think being trans is a choice.

I have nothing more to say to you, your lack of empathy is revolting.

[color=#9932CC][b]I didn't say being Trans, was a choice----but dressing / acting like you're a man, TEMPORARILY, to serve your country, IMO, COULD be a CHOICE. You're the one who said you'd "do anything"----apparently, you WON'T.

I equate "being Trans" to "being gay", in this sense. I have several gay relatives, and every single one of them, has had to "act straight", at some time, or another----either to gain / keep employment, keep their kids, or just to not be KILLED; and, guess what else? SERVE in the military!!

That's not an option.

If untreated, then trans people have very high suicide inclination.

It's not fair to other soldiers to work around such highly suicidal people.

Campin_Cat
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04 Sep 2017, 9:25 am

LoveNotHate wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

MushroomPrincess wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

You think being trans is a choice.

I have nothing more to say to you, your lack of empathy is revolting.

That's not an option.

If untreated, then trans people have very high suicide inclination.

And, you think gays, don't? The suicide rate might be coming-down, as gays are more accepted, all-the-time; but, it certainly wasn't ALWAYS like that. As I said, practically everything of which the public is made-aware, has to go-through a process, until it reaches acceptance----and, IMO, the acceptance of people being Trans, will get there, too.

No, it's not an option, NOW, if this Trans-ban, goes-through----but, again, that hasn't ALWAYS been the case; before, IMO, the "Trans situation" was just what I said: people chose to serve, closeted. I mean, MushroomPrincess, HERSELF, posted a link to a woman who served as a man, during the Civil War:

MushroomPrincess wrote:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Cashier

Here's something a lot of you probably didn't know; a trans person served the union army during the civil war. The US army could use more good soldiers like Albert Cashier.

I read that link, and I don't know if that woman was "actually" Trans (she MAY have been), or she was "just" a woman with great fortitude, who wanted to serve her country----either way, I think she was BEYOND COOL!!

I don't know what you meant, by "If untreated"----I don't know if you meant "if they don't transition", or if you meant "if they don't seek help, with coping with their harassment"----so, I can't address that.....

Barchan
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07 Sep 2017, 11:10 am

Campin_Cat wrote:

You're not the first person who's ever had a rough life, because of confusion, fear of violence, feeling of being unwanted / unaccepted, and so-forth (I mean, all anyone has to be, is an ASDer - and look how many of us, are on this website, ALONE)----and, you're CERTAINLY not the first person who has ever had to hide, what / who you are

You think being on the ASD spectrum is comparable to being an LGBT or ethnic minority? Most people don't have any strong opinions about autism, if they even know what it is.

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