Boris Johnson landslide, Corbyn quits as election leader

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Pepe
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18 Dec 2019, 9:15 pm

jimmy m wrote:
It looks from my perspective Britain is on a roll.

I sincerely hope so.
The utter confusion and disfunctionalism was entertaining while it lasted,
But I'd like Britain to get back on its feet.

Australia and Great Britain will hopefully mutually gain enormously through trade deals and closer ties.
Quote:
A majority of Australians support closer ties with Britain once it breaks away from the European Union, despite being largely ambivalent about the impact of Brexit on their own lives.

A new YouGov poll found nearly two-thirds of Australians back freer movement between Australia and Britain after Brexit, while 56 per cent believe it is in the nation’s interests to reach a post-Brexit trade deal with Britain. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 6bf73edc5c



cyberdad
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19 Dec 2019, 12:48 am

Pepe wrote:
Australia and Great Britain will hopefully mutually gain enormously through trade deals and closer ties.
Quote:
A majority of Australians support closer ties with Britain once it breaks away from the European Union, despite being largely ambivalent about the impact of Brexit on their own lives.

A new YouGov poll found nearly two-thirds of Australians back freer movement between Australia and Britain after Brexit, while 56 per cent believe it is in the nation’s interests to reach a post-Brexit trade deal with Britain. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 6bf73edc5c


Who cares, Australia's future is with Asia not Europe....



AlanMooresBeard
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19 Dec 2019, 3:20 am

jimmy m wrote:

The election was held on 12 December. So if you look at the change of the FTSE 100 since the closing on 12 December:
12 Dec --- 7216
13 Dec --- 7273
16 Dec --- 7353
17 Dec --- 7519
18 Dec --- 7525
Total increase in stock prices 309 which represents a 4.3% increase since the election. It looks from my perspective Britain is on a roll.


The FTSE 100 is actually a fairly weak indicator of how the UK economy is doing as most of the companies on the index are multinationals whose profits are generally made outside the UK especially when the pound is in a weaker state as has been the case in recent years. The FTSE 250, however, is largely made up of UK companies with little or no presence in other markets so this index is actually a more reliable indicator of the state of the UK economy.



Biscuitman
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19 Dec 2019, 3:24 am

FTSE100 is usually around 70-75% foreign investment



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19 Dec 2019, 5:41 am

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
All the people I know in the country have concern for the environment, as they know how their impact affects both their own, and their neighbours lives and livelihoods. In fact, the biggest threats to the environment comes from the some of the rules that are forced upon them by people with no consideration regarding the rules they make other than that they feel good for making them.

There is a conflict of interest in terms of land-use Vs conservation. A great example is in the last federal election when thousands of regional Queenslanders turned their backs on Labor because they thought Shorten would revoke mining rights to Adani's Carmichael Coal mine. An utterly selfish act which bought no benefit since Adani haven't hired anyone since Morrison won the election and of course country Queenslanders are happy to keep burning coal.

Brictoria wrote:
For example, being unable to burn firebreaks (even though these sorts of burns have been occurring for thousands of years (Aboriginals were doing these burns years before Europeans arrived)) in order to clear the build-up of debris in order to lessen/prevent the spread of bushfires and to trigger new growth (Eucalypt seeds, for example, need the heat of the fires in order to "open" and so start growing). With regards to shooting anything that moves, for the most part it is rabbits and foxes (both introduced species) that are the general targets, and this is because they causes losses to farmers stock, as well as to the native animals. With no native predators, these animals would destroy the habitat of a large portion of out native wildlife. And as far as "if it's brown, dig it up"...

Not sure if you realise but the state Coalition governments and their country ministers are largely responsible for not enacting proper fire management practices which has contributed to the bushfires in NSW. Fire service chiefs across Australia have unilaterally tried to meet with your hero Scott Morrison but he is avoiding addressing their concerns and ignoring their emergency summit because that would mean he would have to raise why the coalition (including the Nationals) are happy to keep burning coal and raising the global temperature.

Brictoria wrote:
is only a small portion of Australia which is mined. Most country people have little-to-no interest in digging up their land outside of what is needed for planting crops, which is basically just turning the top layer and not removing anything, in order to allow more plants to grow.

Open cut mining is an incredible eyesore. sustainable farming practice and mining rehabilitation is a joke. I spent my childhood in WA and remember how the mining industry spread Jarrah dieback killing half the native forest.

Brictoria wrote:
I grew up in a conservative electorate on a farm around 5 mile (8km) from the nearest town (population around 150) and can recall many times when people would get together to help others who were having trouble, or even just pop over to say hello. I have since been forced to move for work and am now in a safely "Progressive" electorate. Here, no-one wants anything to do with their neighbours, with minimal contact and none of the sense of community that was present in the conservative area.

Do you know why mental health is a major problem in country electorates? why is youth suicide such an issue? people are isolated and lonely, farmers might have their networks (like your parents) but for people who work in regional/rural areas unless you were born there you end up isolated and alone. Don't try and glamorise some mythic country folktale that everyone is mates and they have your back...I've lived in rural areas and people are not friendly to outsiders. Kids who grow up in the country leave to the city first chance they get.

Brictoria wrote:
So...one family in your "conservative" neighborhood not meeting the standards of your "wealthy parents" is what you base your opinion here on? From the tone of your post, it would seem highly likely that your parents were unlikely to have been conservative, nor to have participated in much to do with the community, which is likley to have a major impact on your understanding of conservative people.
On a side note, I do wonder if it was your neighbours who had the "elitist prejudices", based on your statements made here...


Where did I say one family? I went to an expensive private school and knew hundreds of families from all over Melbourne and they are all of the same elitist snobby ilk. I know many of them who were psychopathic bullies, selfish and self-indulgent who now hold position of power and one bloke like to murder animals for fun (he should have gone to jail) is now director of medical services. I pity his patients. In a Harry Potter world it would be exactly like the slytherin house but only worse.

My only friends in school were international students because they were at least genuine and good hearted.



One of the boys who was in the same house,but a year above me, at Felsted is now a respected economist. Another,from a different house, with the same birthdate as me was the Tory MP for Chichester.They weren't bad bullies, but a lot of other boys were.
I wouldn't call my family 'elite' just solid middle class. My father has had a Who's who entry since 1977 /1978 .

As for me I've lived in the kind of housing people on benefits live on for the last 36 years . I've hardly mixed at all with 'posh' people .


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Pepe
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19 Dec 2019, 6:34 am

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Australia and Great Britain will hopefully mutually gain enormously through trade deals and closer ties.
Quote:
A majority of Australians support closer ties with Britain once it breaks away from the European Union, despite being largely ambivalent about the impact of Brexit on their own lives.

A new YouGov poll found nearly two-thirds of Australians back freer movement between Australia and Britain after Brexit, while 56 per cent believe it is in the nation’s interests to reach a post-Brexit trade deal with Britain. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 6bf73edc5c


Who cares, Australia's future is with Asia not Europe....

Are you talking to me, punk? :mrgreen:

You may not have noticed the Chinese diplomat threatening Australia's economic prosperity today.
The sooner we can decouple our reliance, to some degree at least, on that Authoritarian country the better.
Every bit helps.

Major trade agreement initiatives in the works with Indonesia and India also.
Cross fingers.

<kiss kiss> :wink:



jimmy m
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19 Dec 2019, 11:11 am

AlanMooresBeard wrote:
jimmy m wrote:

The election was held on 12 December. So if you look at the change of the FTSE 100 since the closing on 12 December:
12 Dec --- 7216
13 Dec --- 7273
16 Dec --- 7353
17 Dec --- 7519
18 Dec --- 7525
Total increase in stock prices 309 which represents a 4.3% increase since the election. It looks from my perspective Britain is on a roll.


The FTSE 100 is actually a fairly weak indicator of how the UK economy is doing as most of the companies on the index are multinationals whose profits are generally made outside the UK especially when the pound is in a weaker state as has been the case in recent years. The FTSE 250, however, is largely made up of UK companies with little or no presence in other markets so this index is actually a more reliable indicator of the state of the UK economy.



The election was held on 12 December. So if you look at the change of the FTSE 250 since the closing on 12 December:
12 Dec --- 20,793
13 Dec --- 21,507
16 Dec --- 21,920
17 Dec --- 21,690
18 Dec --- 21,663
Total increase in stock prices 870 which represents a 4.2% increase since the election. From my perspective it still looks like Britain is on a roll.[/quote]


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AlanMooresBeard
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19 Dec 2019, 4:12 pm

Ok, we’ll see if that can be maintained during the next 12 months. I’m still far from optimistic on the UK’s economic prospects in the short to medium term. As a remainer, I now accept that my side has decisively lost. I just hope that the UK ends up joining the EFTA/EEA within the next few years. It won’t replace all the benefits of being in the EU but it will still be much better than trying to compete entirely on our own.



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19 Dec 2019, 4:45 pm

The remainer side lost not to due to lower numbers ,but due to a failure of those parties to work together . The Conservatives won because they had little pro Brexit competition . The pro Brexit parties weren't split in the way the anti Brexit parties were.

I hope lessons are learned , but I fear tribalism will win out next election too.


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19 Dec 2019, 4:56 pm

Pepe wrote:
The sooner we can decouple our reliance, to some degree at least, on that Authoritarian country the better.
Every bit helps.


This is largely Australia's fault. Previous conservative and labour governments since the 1960s have never invested in innovation or manufacturing which would have created industries that make us global competitive. Instead they continue to invest in primary industries on coal, minerals, agro-forestry and fishing where we rely on Asian markets (China is only one trading partner but certainly our biggest).

Kim Beasley and Barry Jones wanted Labour to adopt a knowledge based economy policy where investment shift from traditional land based exports to manufacturing. It's never been adopted.

Even when the armed forces get contracts to building submarines or planes we send the money to France, Sweden or the US.



cyberdad
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19 Dec 2019, 5:00 pm

firemonkey wrote:
One of the boys who was in the same house,but a year above me, at Felsted is now a respected economist. Another,from a different house, with the same birthdate as me was the Tory MP for Chichester.They weren't bad bullies, but a lot of other boys were.
I wouldn't call my family 'elite' just solid middle class. My father has had a Who's who entry since 1977 /1978 .

As for me I've lived in the kind of housing people on benefits live on for the last 36 years . I've hardly mixed at all with 'posh' people .


Thanks for sharing. Many Australians get the impression Britain is still a class based society and your "pedigree" determines where you work as much as your paper qualification. I certainly think the British working class are more conservative than their Australian equivalents.



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19 Dec 2019, 5:29 pm

cyberdad wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
One of the boys who was in the same house,but a year above me, at Felsted is now a respected economist. Another,from a different house, with the same birthdate as me was the Tory MP for Chichester.They weren't bad bullies, but a lot of other boys were.
I wouldn't call my family 'elite' just solid middle class. My father has had a Who's who entry since 1977 /1978 .

As for me I've lived in the kind of housing people on benefits live on for the last 36 years . I've hardly mixed at all with 'posh' people .


Thanks for sharing. Many Australians get the impression Britain is still a class based society and your "pedigree" determines where you work as much as your paper qualification. I certainly think the British working class are more conservative than their Australian equivalents.



A snippet from two articles.

Quote:
The left in British electoral politics has become more fragmented, particularly in the past decade; those with economically left values are increasingly divided by cultural attitudes. It will be vital for Labour to find ways to bridge this growing divide if the party is to be electorally successful.


http://www.renewal.org.uk/articles/the- ... since-2010

Quote:
Liberal-left positions on diversity, immigration and European integration, as well as areas such as criminal justice, security and human rights, are appealing to middle-class professionals and students, but often grate with the social conservatism of traditional working-class communities.



https://theconversation.com/two-tribes- ... der-129103

Going off on a tangent.
As a person from a solid middle class family who has drifted down the social scale due to chronic, severe mental illness this raises the question of how much class should be based on where you end up or on what values you hold.

My parents were fairly socially liberal conservative my father , and a mother who was a liberal/conservative voter . I have always been to the left, politically , of both - pro remain ,pro immigration, anti capital punishment, pro diversity etc

My middle class socially liberal values have stayed intact despite my falling down the social totem pole .


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19 Dec 2019, 7:01 pm

the world over, what is it about righties that makes them cooperate [largely] amongst themselves, but the left is ALWAYS at each other's throats?



cyberdad
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19 Dec 2019, 7:25 pm

firemonkey wrote:
Going off on a tangent.
As a person from a solid middle class family who has drifted down the social scale due to chronic, severe mental illness this raises the question of how much class should be based on where you end up or on what values you hold.

My parents were fairly socially liberal conservative my father , and a mother who was a liberal/conservative voter . I have always been to the left, politically , of both - pro remain ,pro immigration, anti capital punishment, pro diversity etc

My middle class socially liberal values have stayed intact despite my falling down the social totem pole .


Yes I understand your experience as I've slipped down the totem pole myself, especially after my daughter's diagnosis many friends and associates seem to want to avoid us. I think they don't know how to process our predicament and think it's easier to avoid inviting us anymore. Polite form of ostracism.

My wife is very private and she and I both seem to just happy to live outside of the social hierarchies as we enjoy reading and travel which occupies our free time.



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20 Dec 2019, 2:57 am

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
The sooner we can decouple our reliance, to some degree at least, on that Authoritarian country the better.
Every bit helps.


This is largely Australia's fault. Previous conservative and labour governments since the 1960s have never invested in innovation or manufacturing which would have created industries that make us global competitive. Instead they continue to invest in primary industries on coal, minerals, agro-forestry and fishing where we rely on Asian markets (China is only one trading partner but certainly our biggest).

Kim Beasley and Barry Jones wanted Labour to adopt a knowledge based economy policy where investment shift from traditional land based exports to manufacturing. It's never been adopted.

Even when the armed forces get contracts to building submarines or planes we send the money to France, Sweden or the US.


In what universe? :mrgreen:
Peter Costello mocked the focus on manufacturing here in Australia.
He quite rightly pointed out the labour cost discrepancy between us and Asia.
We simply couldn't/can't compete cost-wise, especially back then with Asian sweat-shops.

We have made and are making serious dosh through mining.
Don't quote me, but I think iron ore and coal exports sustain our standard of living on their own.
Without them, we would probably have to go the Greek way and sodomise the pensions and welfare payment bigtime.
Young people, yes I know you aren't one of them critters, are clueless about what would happen economically to the people who could least afford it.
And China is bullying us on this front.

But what the heck,
Let's embrace emotionalism and bugger rational and practical considerations. 8O



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20 Dec 2019, 3:31 am

Pepe wrote:
We have made and are making serious dosh through mining.
Don't quote me, but I think iron ore and coal exports sustain our standard of living on their own.
Without them, we would probably have to go the Greek way and sodomise the pensions and welfare payment bigtime.
Young people, yes I know you aren't one of them critters, are clueless about what would happen economically to the people who could least afford it.
And China is bullying us on this front.


I find it super hypocritical for Australia to be complaining about China now when they chose to open the doors to Chinese influence a long long time ago. Foreign ownership of land and investment in addition to exports (your serious dosh) means we are reliant on China the same way the US puts up with Saudi Arabia because of the oil.

Australian politicians and businessman are happy to line their pockets giving special leeway to Chinese influence. If you want to point a finger then start with corrupt politicians, plenty in the coalition.