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EzraS
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20 Feb 2020, 5:20 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Not at all! Denial of racism is to turn a blind eye to the scourge, thus allowing it to propagate. When this is done purposefully, it can be nothing other than racism or any other sort of discrimination. And no, I'm not saying you or Ezra are racists, as I think more likely you accept the spin put on the subject by real racists posing as luminaries of the right or libertarianism.


You referred to that as the new racism as in neo-racism.

What's going on is simple. There are those who constantly talk about racism and say things like "the US is crawling with rabid racists". It is not a matter of saying it exists and is a problem. It is going on and on and on about it existing everywhere like an epidemic among the right, republicans and conservatives. The message is pretty much "the right is the disease and the left is the cure".

The accusation of denying racism exists based on those kinds of observations, is along the same lines of accusing those who argue against an immediate climate change catastrophe (for which once again the left is the cure) as denying climate change exists.

There is an out of control epidemic of racism and we need the left to save the world from it. Likewise the world itself is coming to an end soon and we need the left to save us from that too.



Shabrem
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20 Feb 2020, 5:52 am

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
While as an NT on an autism forum accuse us autistics of being trolls while you screw with us, insult us, and mock us.


Got to do something about your paranoia. I was referring to Raptor who wanted to jump in to this discussion...and stop with your anti-NT rhetoric.....only you and one other member have continually repeated that NTs have no place on this forum.


That's the ultimate gaslight. Accusing someone of being paranoid. My observation of you screwing with, name calling and mocking us while calling us trolls is based on years of reading your posts. I am on record as one who for years has defended NTs in areas like General Autism Discussion. The only problem I have with NTs being on an autism forum is when they routinely bully, screw with, name call and mock autistic members. And there are a hell of a lot more than two of us who feel that way. I actually get PMs from newer autistic members asking about you.


Why don't the moderators do something about it?



EzraS
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20 Feb 2020, 6:19 am

Shabrem wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
While as an NT on an autism forum accuse us autistics of being trolls while you screw with us, insult us, and mock us.


Got to do something about your paranoia. I was referring to Raptor who wanted to jump in to this discussion...and stop with your anti-NT rhetoric.....only you and one other member have continually repeated that NTs have no place on this forum.


That's the ultimate gaslight. Accusing someone of being paranoid. My observation of you screwing with, name calling and mocking us while calling us trolls is based on years of reading your posts. I am on record as one who for years has defended NTs in areas like General Autism Discussion. The only problem I have with NTs being on an autism forum is when they routinely bully, screw with, name call and mock autistic members. And there are a hell of a lot more than two of us who feel that way. I actually get PMs from newer autistic members asking about you.


Why don't the moderators do something about it?


Cyberdad has basically claimed the moderators are on his side politically and named one of them specifically.

He says the only warning he has ever gotten was for bullying me because I whined and cried about it so much or words to that effect.



Last edited by EzraS on 20 Feb 2020, 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kraichgauer
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20 Feb 2020, 6:47 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Not at all! Denial of racism is to turn a blind eye to the scourge, thus allowing it to propagate. When this is done purposefully, it can be nothing other than racism or any other sort of discrimination. And no, I'm not saying you or Ezra are racists, as I think more likely you accept the spin put on the subject by real racists posing as luminaries of the right or libertarianism.


You referred to that as the new racism as in neo-racism.

What's going on is simple. There are those who constantly talk about racism and say things like "the US is crawling with rabid racists". It is not a matter of saying it exists and is a problem. It is going on and on and on about it existing everywhere like an epidemic among the right, republicans and conservatives. The message is pretty much "the right is the disease and the left is the cure".

The accusation of denying racism exists based on those kinds of observations, is along the same lines of accusing those who argue against an immediate climate change catastrophe (for which once again the left is the cure) as denying climate change exists.

There is an out of control epidemic of racism and we need the left to save the world from it. Likewise the world itself is coming to an end soon and we need the left to save us from that too.


I don't think Cyberdad or I have ever said America was crawling with racist hordes. But the fact remains, racists still exists, and have been encouraged in recent years; first as a reaction against Obama, and now that they have been emboldened with Trump's election.
As for conservatives all being racists: no, absolutely not. But it's the political right that had opened it's arms to millions of white southern conservative Democrats, bringing with them their bigotry that lives on as voter suppression and the roll back of civil rights legislation.
As for the liberals being the ones to stop race hatred: well, someone's gotta.


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EzraS
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20 Feb 2020, 7:56 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think Cyberdad or I have ever said America was crawling with racist hordes.


Uh huh.

cyberdad wrote:
To me that's more of a lingering concern why the US is crawling with rabid racists than whether one nutter presenting himself to be arrested over Trump


That is just the latest from a few days ago.

Kraichgauer wrote:
But the fact remains, racists still exists, and have been encouraged in recent years; first as a reaction against Obama, and now that they have been emboldened with Trump's election.
As for conservatives all being racists: no, absolutely not. But it's the political right that had opened it's arms to millions of white southern conservative Democrats, bringing with them their bigotry that lives on as voter suppression and the roll back of civil rights legislation.
As for the liberals being the ones to stop race hatred: well, someone's gotta.


What happened is criticism against Obama was labeld as racist. The left played the racist card to the Nth degree while Obama was in office implicating the right as a whole. Then when they lost to Trump in 2016 they put it into overdrive and added Russians.



Brictoria
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20 Feb 2020, 10:52 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think Cyberdad or I have ever said America was crawling with racist hordes.


Uh huh.

cyberdad wrote:
To me that's more of a lingering concern why the US is crawling with rabid racists than whether one nutter presenting himself to be arrested over Trump


That is just the latest from a few days ago.

Kraichgauer wrote:
But the fact remains, racists still exists, and have been encouraged in recent years; first as a reaction against Obama, and now that they have been emboldened with Trump's election.
As for conservatives all being racists: no, absolutely not. But it's the political right that had opened it's arms to millions of white southern conservative Democrats, bringing with them their bigotry that lives on as voter suppression and the roll back of civil rights legislation.
As for the liberals being the ones to stop race hatred: well, someone's gotta.


What happened is criticism against Obama was labeld as racist. The left played the racist card to the Nth degree while Obama was in office implicating the right as a whole. Then when they lost to Trump in 2016 they put it into overdrive and added Russians.


The problem is that terms like "racism" (and "misogyny") have been twisted to mean that any critisism that a person (or group) do not agree with is referred to under these labels, purely based on the race (/gender/?) of the person who is being critisised and not on the actual message they had delivered and about which the critism is aimed. Sadly, this is used to shut down any discussion, however valid, where they are unable to defend their position through other means.

Additionally, the term "racism" has been diminished through the one-sided nature in which it is applied...Some races are more equal than others in terms of being the target of racism, or being racist. Anything (or anyone) in favour of groups based on race receiving better\worse\different treatment is propogating the racsim issue. Strangely enough, it is often those who claim to be for "equality" that are guiilty of this behaviour and who then accuse their critics of being racist when this is pointed out.



Kraichgauer
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20 Feb 2020, 5:10 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think Cyberdad or I have ever said America was crawling with racist hordes.


Uh huh.

cyberdad wrote:
To me that's more of a lingering concern why the US is crawling with rabid racists than whether one nutter presenting himself to be arrested over Trump


That is just the latest from a few days ago.

Kraichgauer wrote:
But the fact remains, racists still exists, and have been encouraged in recent years; first as a reaction against Obama, and now that they have been emboldened with Trump's election.
As for conservatives all being racists: no, absolutely not. But it's the political right that had opened it's arms to millions of white southern conservative Democrats, bringing with them their bigotry that lives on as voter suppression and the roll back of civil rights legislation.
As for the liberals being the ones to stop race hatred: well, someone's gotta.


What happened is criticism against Obama was labeld as racist. The left played the racist card to the Nth degree while Obama was in office implicating the right as a whole. Then when they lost to Trump in 2016 they put it into overdrive and added Russians.


There was racist attacks on Obama: that he wasn't really born in America, Rush Limbaugh's "Halfrican" song he'd play every day, the claim he was sparking racial division (which was a reaction to Obama being black in the first place), etc. But I don't think anyone with legitimate concerns ever said disagreement with Obama was racist.
Trump, according to the Mueller report, did get help from the Russians, had had a largely illegal relationship with Russia going back years, and has had too cozy of a relationship with them considering that Putin wants America's greatness to become a thing of the past.


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EzraS
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20 Feb 2020, 5:59 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think Cyberdad or I have ever said America was crawling with racist hordes.


Uh huh.

cyberdad wrote:
To me that's more of a lingering concern why the US is crawling with rabid racists than whether one nutter presenting himself to be arrested over Trump


That is just the latest from a few days ago.

Kraichgauer wrote:
But the fact remains, racists still exists, and have been encouraged in recent years; first as a reaction against Obama, and now that they have been emboldened with Trump's election.
As for conservatives all being racists: no, absolutely not. But it's the political right that had opened it's arms to millions of white southern conservative Democrats, bringing with them their bigotry that lives on as voter suppression and the roll back of civil rights legislation.
As for the liberals being the ones to stop race hatred: well, someone's gotta.


What happened is criticism against Obama was labeld as racist. The left played the racist card to the Nth degree while Obama was in office implicating the right as a whole. Then when they lost to Trump in 2016 they put it into overdrive and added Russians.


There was racist attacks on Obama: that he wasn't really born in America, Rush Limbaugh's "Halfrican" song he'd play every day, the claim he was sparking racial division (which was a reaction to Obama being black in the first place), etc. But I don't think anyone with legitimate concerns ever said disagreement with Obama was racist.
Trump, according to the Mueller report, did get help from the Russians, had had a largely illegal relationship with Russia going back years, and has had too cozy of a relationship with them considering that Putin wants America's greatness to become a thing of the past.


There were racist attacks. Then there were just attacks and criticisms that had nothing to do with race that were called racist. The premise was they only existed because the right could not stand having a black man as president.



Kraichgauer
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20 Feb 2020, 6:26 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think Cyberdad or I have ever said America was crawling with racist hordes.


Uh huh.

cyberdad wrote:
To me that's more of a lingering concern why the US is crawling with rabid racists than whether one nutter presenting himself to be arrested over Trump


That is just the latest from a few days ago.

Kraichgauer wrote:
But the fact remains, racists still exists, and have been encouraged in recent years; first as a reaction against Obama, and now that they have been emboldened with Trump's election.
As for conservatives all being racists: no, absolutely not. But it's the political right that had opened it's arms to millions of white southern conservative Democrats, bringing with them their bigotry that lives on as voter suppression and the roll back of civil rights legislation.
As for the liberals being the ones to stop race hatred: well, someone's gotta.


What happened is criticism against Obama was labeld as racist. The left played the racist card to the Nth degree while Obama was in office implicating the right as a whole. Then when they lost to Trump in 2016 they put it into overdrive and added Russians.


There was racist attacks on Obama: that he wasn't really born in America, Rush Limbaugh's "Halfrican" song he'd play every day, the claim he was sparking racial division (which was a reaction to Obama being black in the first place), etc. But I don't think anyone with legitimate concerns ever said disagreement with Obama was racist.
Trump, according to the Mueller report, did get help from the Russians, had had a largely illegal relationship with Russia going back years, and has had too cozy of a relationship with them considering that Putin wants America's greatness to become a thing of the past.


There were racist attacks. Then there were just attacks and criticisms that had nothing to do with race that were called racist. The premise was they only existed because the right could not stand having a black man as president.


Is that the case? Or is it just a matter of conservatives making themselves out to be victims? I had heard plenty of criticism of Obama, and never once did I believe most of it was racist.


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EzraS
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20 Feb 2020, 9:36 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Is that the case? Or is it just a matter of conservatives making themselves out to be victims? I had heard plenty of criticism of Obama, and never once did I believe most of it was racist.


The world does not revolve around you needless to say. It is quite easy to see what was said by the left during the Obama administration. The left machine plays up racism as a political tool/weapon. That is just a simple fact.



Shabrem
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20 Feb 2020, 9:52 pm

EzraS wrote:

The left machine plays up racism as a political tool/weapon. That is just a simple fact.


This has been my observation also. It is often a go to, used to disrupt rational discussion.



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20 Feb 2020, 9:54 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Is that the case? Or is it just a matter of conservatives making themselves out to be victims? I had heard plenty of criticism of Obama, and never once did I believe most of it was racist.


The world does not revolve around you needless to say. It is quite easy to see what was said by the left during the Obama administration. The left machine plays up racism as a political tool/weapon. That is just a simple fact.


It's true that the right pretends there is no racial problem and argues there is no longer any need for legal protections for minorities, all the while coddling racists for the sake of votes. When they do concede there is racism, they claim it's whites who are the ones being discriminated against.


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EzraS
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20 Feb 2020, 10:18 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Is that the case? Or is it just a matter of conservatives making themselves out to be victims? I had heard plenty of criticism of Obama, and never once did I believe most of it was racist.


The world does not revolve around you needless to say. It is quite easy to see what was said by the left during the Obama administration. The left machine plays up racism as a political tool/weapon. That is just a simple fact.


It's true that the right pretends there is no racial problem and argues there is no longer any need for legal protections for minorities, all the while coddling racists for the sake of votes. When they do concede there is racism, they claim it's whites who are the ones being discriminated against.


What source do you get that from, the right itself or CNN and the like?



Shabrem
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20 Feb 2020, 10:19 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Is that the case? Or is it just a matter of conservatives making themselves out to be victims? I had heard plenty of criticism of Obama, and never once did I believe most of it was racist.


The world does not revolve around you needless to say. It is quite easy to see what was said by the left during the Obama administration. The left machine plays up racism as a political tool/weapon. That is just a simple fact.


It's true that the right pretends there is no racial problem and argues there is no longer any need for legal protections for minorities, all the while coddling racists for the sake of votes. When they do concede there is racism, they claim it's whites who are the ones being discriminated against.


That is very binary.



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20 Feb 2020, 11:50 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Is that the case? Or is it just a matter of conservatives making themselves out to be victims? I had heard plenty of criticism of Obama, and never once did I believe most of it was racist.


The world does not revolve around you needless to say. It is quite easy to see what was said by the left during the Obama administration. The left machine plays up racism as a political tool/weapon. That is just a simple fact.


It's true that the right pretends there is no racial problem and argues there is no longer any need for legal protections for minorities, all the while coddling racists for the sake of votes. When they do concede there is racism, they claim it's whites who are the ones being discriminated against.


In general, based on what I have seen, the left seem to group people by race, providing different treatment to each, and fragmenting the population, leading to the consequence of those who are "out of favor" feeling (rightly or wrongly) that they are being discriminated against.

The right, on the other hand, don't seem (in general) to consider race as a factor, instead trying to treat everyone in the same way, which can lead to circumstances where some groups feel (rightly or wrongly) that they are being discriminated against.

Objectively, this gives the appearance of the left being racist (while fighting against racism) whilst the right are against racism (whilst giving the unintended appearance of being racist).

Unfortunately, while people on either side are willing/want to find something to be offended by instead of working together with the other side to find some middle-ground, it's hard to see this situation ending.



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21 Feb 2020, 1:41 am

Brictoria wrote:
The right, on the other hand, don't seem (in general) to consider race as a factor, instead trying to treat everyone in the same way, which can lead to circumstances where some groups feel (rightly or wrongly) that they are being discriminated against.

Objectively, this gives the appearance of the left being racist (while fighting against racism) whilst the right are against racism (whilst giving the unintended appearance of being racist)


This of course assumes people on the right wing of politics fit your model
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ump-racism

Unfortunately the reality doesn't quite fit your view right wingers "don't consider race"