British soldier killed on street in London

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neilson_wheels
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27 May 2013, 5:15 am

Sylkat wrote:

Agreed:
If and when someone living in a country which has sent troops to his original country wants this war to stop, he needs to go to THAT country, join their army, and fight uniformed, armed soldiers in the war zone.

Hacking at a young man in a shopping district may seem like 'warfare' to the attackers and those who taught/encouraged them, but it is assault and murder and fanaticism nonetheless.

Sylkat

One of these guys was arrested in 2010 in Kenya on the way to Somalia to join the jihad there. Supposedly he was handed over to MI5, British counter terrorism agency, before being deported. It has been reported that MI5 tried to recruit him, also that he was tortured by the Kenyans which further fueled his extremist opinions.

Why do you keep bringing up the IRA?

neilson_wheels
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27 May 2013, 5:23 am

Tequila wrote:

Sylkat wrote:

I heard that they're arresting people that make anti-Islam posts on Facebook and Twitter as this killing, is that true? I don't think you can be considered a free country if it is.

Some of the people have been arrested for making some pretty threatening and racist comments. A lot of those arrested have just been arrested for being insulting, which is a massive shame.

One actually wonders whether it would be better to check out the threatening ones to see where the real danger is. There's a difference between some drunk dickhead saying some extremely stupid and racist stuff and feeling horrible the next morning, and someone issuing serious threats on Twitter.

Oh: and I hope that white people are not the only ones investigated for racism and threats of violence.

That said, I didn't agree with Azhar Ahmed being prosecuted either for his comments about British soldiers last year.

If people are stupid enough to show their prejudice and encourage violence in the public domain then they deserve to be prosecuted, all of them.

This is just a knee jerk reaction to try and keep a lid on what is a tinder box with many smouldering embers around.

Some who plan to actually act do not neccessarily make themselves that obvious, as has just been proved.

Tequila
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27 May 2013, 5:49 am

neilson_wheels wrote:

One of these guys was arrested in 2010 in Kenya on the way to Somalia to join the jihad there.

Al-Shabaab are an unbelievably barbaric lot. They've murdered thousands of people, including NGOs, human rights workers and literally anyone that even remotely dissents from their ultra-literalist version of Sharia.

There are videos of teenage girls being stoned to death on the Internet by these guys.

And Al-Shabaab are nothing to do with fighting the West. They just want to impose their indescribably savage form of Islam on Somalis. They are religious fascists, torturers and slayers steeped in blood.

Tequila
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27 May 2013, 5:52 am

Turns out that some of the Islamists arrested relating to the murder of Lee Rigby are from Lancashire. Not a surprise.

neilson_wheels wrote:

If people are stupid enough to show their prejudice and encourage violence in the public domain then they deserve to be prosecuted, all of them.

What about simply racist and abusive tweets/Facebook messages? A lot of people have been arrested not for actually inciting violence, but simply for being offensive.

Almighty_CRJ
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27 May 2013, 5:54 am

neilson_wheels wrote:

Almighty_CRJ wrote:

Yes but Britain funds the army using VAT money. By even living here & buying food, you're funding the armed forces.

I'm sure that could be over looked.

If terrorists did, they would be hypocrites. The Koran verse was quite explicit on that topic. If taken literally, anyone who buys food in the UK is a viable target regardless of belief, regardless of whether they have been tricked.

Sylkat
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27 May 2013, 6:09 am

You would be surprised how little it takes to set some people off.

None of us knows how much rage or pain someone else is carrying around, and the right rhetoric, or television presentation, has been 'the last straw' that pushed someone over the edge.

We had the KKK, the White Aryan Resistance, a lot of people not even in known groups who can go violent from just the right stimulus.

Sylkat

neilson_wheels
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27 May 2013, 6:12 am

Tequila wrote:

Turns out that some of the Islamists arrested relating to the murder of Lee Rigby are from Lancashire. Not a surprise.

neilson_wheels wrote:

If people are stupid enough to show their prejudice and encourage violence in the public domain then they deserve to be prosecuted, all of them.

What about simply racist and abusive tweets/Facebook messages? A lot of people have been arrested not for actually inciting violence, but simply for being offensive.

I do not follow twitter or facebook, I find the concepts ridiculous. As I said this will be a policy reaction attempting to contain the damage and limit any revenge actions. Whether it is right or not it is happening, I have no power to stop it and I have said why I feel it is being promoted.
My original post still stands, anyone publicly promoting violence should be prosecuted.
Consistently editing my posts like this to make your own case is a bit shallow I feel.

neilson_wheels
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27 May 2013, 6:20 am

Almighty_CRJ wrote:

neilson_wheels wrote:

Almighty_CRJ wrote:

Yes but Britain funds the army using VAT money. By even living here & buying food, you're funding the armed forces.

I'm sure that could be over looked.

Hypocrites they surely are.
What if they are receiving benefits for not working, housing paid for and child support.
Additionally they choose to only buy food, clothing and financial services from others of the same faith, if possible, in cash ignoring the VAT, if possible again.
In this scenario the individual woukld be state funded and the only non-muslim out going bills would be for utilities.
I'm not saying this does actually happen, it's just a thought.

Last edited by neilson_wheels on 27 May 2013, 6:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

Sylkat
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27 May 2013, 6:23 am

To clarify my opinion, just spewing religious or racial or sexist hatred CAN be enough to set SOME people off.
Therefore, there is some responsibility when rhetoric, on T.V., in the home, in the Mosque, or on the Internet, actually is that last straw,and someone gets killed or badly beaten, or raped.

As those who murdered Lee Rigsby showed, any weapon will do if someone wants to commit murder.

Did everyone get the same impression as I did regarding their next move?

I feel that attacking a car full of police was an attempt at 'martyrdom', that they wanted their guaranteed entrance into Paradise, and their 72 virgins.

Sylkat

Tequila
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27 May 2013, 6:29 am

neilson_wheels wrote:

I thought jihad was holy war against non-believers, not specifically the west.

It is. My point about "the West" is exactly that - that Islam is against everyone who is non-Muslim, or not Muslim or bloodthirsty enough for Islamic fanatics or criticises Islam or the orthodoxy, or who breaks Sharia.

Sylkat wrote:

We had the KKK, the White Aryan Resistance, a lot of people not even in known groups who can go violent from just the right stimulus.

But again, these groups aren't a major problem compared to Islamic terrorists.

neilson_wheels
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27 May 2013, 6:31 am

Sylkat wrote:

Totally agreed as I have tried to say a number of times on this thread.

Quote:

As those who murdered Lee Rigsby showed, any weapon will do if someone wants to commit murder.

Well they did run him over first, came prepared with numerous weapons and out-numbered an unarmed man.
He did not have a chance in hell.

Quote:

Did everyone get the same impression as I did regarding their next move?

I feel that attacking a car full of police was an attempt at 'martyrdom', that they wanted their guaranteed entrance into Paradise, and their 72 virgins.

Totally agreed as I have tried to say a number of times on this thread.

neilson_wheels
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27 May 2013, 6:46 am

Tequila wrote:

neilson_wheels wrote:

One of these guys was arrested in 2010 in Kenya on the way to Somalia to join the jihad there.

And Al-Shabaab are nothing to do with fighting the West. They just want to impose their indescribably savage form of Islam on Somalis. They are religious fascists, torturers and slayers steeped in blood.

neilson_wheels wrote:

I thought jihad was holy war against non-believers, not specifically the west.

Tequila wrote:

Do you not get dizzy going round in circles? I do.

Tequila
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27 May 2013, 6:56 am

neilson_wheels wrote:

Tequila wrote:

neilson_wheels wrote:

One of these guys was arrested in 2010 in Kenya on the way to Somalia to join the jihad there.

neilson_wheels wrote:

I thought jihad was holy war against non-believers, not specifically the west.

Tequila wrote:

Do you not get dizzy going round in circles? I do.

neilson_wheels
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27 May 2013, 7:06 am

Is that your home town? Looks nice.

Sylkat
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27 May 2013, 8:37 am

Referring to the "...2010 in Kenya" comment....how did someone like that get into your country?

Are they there illegally?

Sylkat

neilson_wheels
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27 May 2013, 8:45 am

Sylkat wrote:

Referring to the "...2010 in Kenya" comment....how did someone like that get into your country?

Are they there illegally?

Born in the UK to christian family from Nigeria, converted to islam in 2002, I think. Arrested in UK 2006 for violent demonstration then left the country to join jihad in 2010, got caught and was deported back to his home country.

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