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Jacoby
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29 May 2017, 11:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
For one thing, Putin is out to get us. He believes his nation's greatest tragedy was the fall of the Soviet Union, which he now wants to restore under greater Russia. This he wants to accomplish through steamrolling his neighbors, and taking down enemies he blames for Russia's demise - namely us and our European allies.
And another thing, it was you guys on the right who were for the most part fanatical Russophobes back in the '50s, right down to the Anti-Red persecution that had ruined the lives of millions of Americans. The American left's opposition to Putin isn't a revival of Cold War fears, but fear of a potential coming age of Strongmen, directed from the Kremlin.


Oh for f***'s sake, why, if he is as you believe, a crooked kleptocratic gangster who has plundered his country, murdered his opponents, is (according to some) the RICHEST man on Earth, and has absolute control of his country, willing to risk all of that for a restoration of the USSR? Do you even remember how things were in the USSR? Apart from perhaps under the rule of Stalin, it was the C.P.S.U. that wielded ultimate control, and was the ultimate authority, not any one man. How about some consistency in your narrative, if you don't mind. You're starting to sound like CNN.

By the way, yes, the fall of the USSR actually WAS a catastrophe, for many reasons. That's not news (well, maybe for you it is).


Putin doesn't literally want to bring back the communism of the Soviet Union, or their governmental system, but rather wants to see the power of Russia restored.
As for your other posts:
Wanting what's best for his country is one thing, but wanting to bring us down because of how he blames us for bringing down Russian is quite another.
In regard to his past history - that's in reference to his interfering with the elections of other countries, of his military interventions, and his trail of assassinations.
But seriously, why are you guys on the right, who have a long history of attacking the left for their alleged lack of loyalty to America, suddenly so in love with Putin and Russia that you'll side with them over your own country?


Why are you currently siding against our country and president? Are you more loyal to Europe than you are this country? You are being manipulated by the corporate interests which control our country's media, CNN is seriously rotting your brain.



Kraichgauer
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29 May 2017, 11:35 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
For one thing, Putin is out to get us. He believes his nation's greatest tragedy was the fall of the Soviet Union, which he now wants to restore under greater Russia. This he wants to accomplish through steamrolling his neighbors, and taking down enemies he blames for Russia's demise - namely us and our European allies.
And another thing, it was you guys on the right who were for the most part fanatical Russophobes back in the '50s, right down to the Anti-Red persecution that had ruined the lives of millions of Americans. The American left's opposition to Putin isn't a revival of Cold War fears, but fear of a potential coming age of Strongmen, directed from the Kremlin.


Oh for f***'s sake, why, if he is as you believe, a crooked kleptocratic gangster who has plundered his country, murdered his opponents, is (according to some) the RICHEST man on Earth, and has absolute control of his country, willing to risk all of that for a restoration of the USSR? Do you even remember how things were in the USSR? Apart from perhaps under the rule of Stalin, it was the C.P.S.U. that wielded ultimate control, and was the ultimate authority, not any one man. How about some consistency in your narrative, if you don't mind. You're starting to sound like CNN.

By the way, yes, the fall of the USSR actually WAS a catastrophe, for many reasons. That's not news (well, maybe for you it is).


Putin doesn't literally want to bring back the communism of the Soviet Union, or their governmental system, but rather wants to see the power of Russia restored.
As for your other posts:
Wanting what's best for his country is one thing, but wanting to bring us down because of how he blames us for bringing down Russian is quite another.
In regard to his past history - that's in reference to his interfering with the elections of other countries, of his military interventions, and his trail of assassinations.
But seriously, why are you guys on the right, who have a long history of attacking the left for their alleged lack of loyalty to America, suddenly so in love with Putin and Russia that you'll side with them over your own country?


Why are you currently siding against our country and president? Are you more loyal to Europe than you are this country? You are being manipulated by the corporate interests which control our country's media, CNN is seriously rotting your brain.


I like to think of myself as the loyal opposition. I criticize a President and party I don't like, but I will never choose any other country over America.
And what's the alternative to the mainstream media? Fox? Alex Jones? Breitbart? And what problem do you have with the mainstream media, besides that they don't tell you the narrative you want to hear?


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EzraS
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30 May 2017, 4:39 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
For one thing, Putin is out to get us. He believes his nation's greatest tragedy was the fall of the Soviet Union, which he now wants to restore under greater Russia. This he wants to accomplish through steamrolling his neighbors, and taking down enemies he blames for Russia's demise - namely us and our European allies.
And another thing, it was you guys on the right who were for the most part fanatical Russophobes back in the '50s, right down to the Anti-Red persecution that had ruined the lives of millions of Americans. The American left's opposition to Putin isn't a revival of Cold War fears, but fear of a potential coming age of Strongmen, directed from the Kremlin.


Oh for f***'s sake, why, if he is as you believe, a crooked kleptocratic gangster who has plundered his country, murdered his opponents, is (according to some) the RICHEST man on Earth, and has absolute control of his country, willing to risk all of that for a restoration of the USSR? Do you even remember how things were in the USSR? Apart from perhaps under the rule of Stalin, it was the C.P.S.U. that wielded ultimate control, and was the ultimate authority, not any one man. How about some consistency in your narrative, if you don't mind. You're starting to sound like CNN.

By the way, yes, the fall of the USSR actually WAS a catastrophe, for many reasons. That's not news (well, maybe for you it is).


Putin doesn't literally want to bring back the communism of the Soviet Union, or their governmental system, but rather wants to see the power of Russia restored.
As for your other posts:
Wanting what's best for his country is one thing, but wanting to bring us down because of how he blames us for bringing down Russian is quite another.
In regard to his past history - that's in reference to his interfering with the elections of other countries, of his military interventions, and his trail of assassinations.
But seriously, why are you guys on the right, who have a long history of attacking the left for their alleged lack of loyalty to America, suddenly so in love with Putin and Russia that you'll side with them over your own country?


Why are you currently siding against our country and president? Are you more loyal to Europe than you are this country? You are being manipulated by the corporate interests which control our country's media, CNN is seriously rotting your brain.


I like to think of myself as the loyal opposition. I criticize a President and party I don't like, but I will never choose any other country over America.
And what's the alternative to the mainstream media? Fox? Alex Jones? Breitbart? And what problem do you have with the mainstream media, besides that they don't tell you the narrative you want to hear?


If you don't mind my two cents worth, the problem I have with CNN, is it's always full of hit pieces. That seems to be its main focus since November. It's not like actual news any longer. It's more like "we really really hate the President".

(And no, I don't turn to Fox either and I've never been to Alex Jones or Breitbart.)



Kraichgauer
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30 May 2017, 5:01 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
For one thing, Putin is out to get us. He believes his nation's greatest tragedy was the fall of the Soviet Union, which he now wants to restore under greater Russia. This he wants to accomplish through steamrolling his neighbors, and taking down enemies he blames for Russia's demise - namely us and our European allies.
And another thing, it was you guys on the right who were for the most part fanatical Russophobes back in the '50s, right down to the Anti-Red persecution that had ruined the lives of millions of Americans. The American left's opposition to Putin isn't a revival of Cold War fears, but fear of a potential coming age of Strongmen, directed from the Kremlin.


Oh for f***'s sake, why, if he is as you believe, a crooked kleptocratic gangster who has plundered his country, murdered his opponents, is (according to some) the RICHEST man on Earth, and has absolute control of his country, willing to risk all of that for a restoration of the USSR? Do you even remember how things were in the USSR? Apart from perhaps under the rule of Stalin, it was the C.P.S.U. that wielded ultimate control, and was the ultimate authority, not any one man. How about some consistency in your narrative, if you don't mind. You're starting to sound like CNN.

By the way, yes, the fall of the USSR actually WAS a catastrophe, for many reasons. That's not news (well, maybe for you it is).


Putin doesn't literally want to bring back the communism of the Soviet Union, or their governmental system, but rather wants to see the power of Russia restored.
As for your other posts:
Wanting what's best for his country is one thing, but wanting to bring us down because of how he blames us for bringing down Russian is quite another.
In regard to his past history - that's in reference to his interfering with the elections of other countries, of his military interventions, and his trail of assassinations.
But seriously, why are you guys on the right, who have a long history of attacking the left for their alleged lack of loyalty to America, suddenly so in love with Putin and Russia that you'll side with them over your own country?


Why are you currently siding against our country and president? Are you more loyal to Europe than you are this country? You are being manipulated by the corporate interests which control our country's media, CNN is seriously rotting your brain.


I like to think of myself as the loyal opposition. I criticize a President and party I don't like, but I will never choose any other country over America.
And what's the alternative to the mainstream media? Fox? Alex Jones? Breitbart? And what problem do you have with the mainstream media, besides that they don't tell you the narrative you want to hear?


If you don't mind my two cents worth, the problem I have with CNN, is it's always full of hit pieces. That seems to be its main focus since November. It's not like actual news any longer. It's more like "we really really hate the President".

(And no, I don't turn to Fox either and I've never been to Alex Jones or Breitbart.)


Yes, CNN isn't afraid to be critical of the President. But recall, he had started the vendetta with them by calling them fake news, even before his election. He hadn't even tried having a constructive relationship with them, preferring specious, real fake news outlets like Fox, Breitbart, and Alex Jones. Besides, a free society needs a free press that isn't afraid to be critical of the Commander-in-Chief.
Just where do you get your news from, if not the media?


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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


EzraS
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30 May 2017, 8:22 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
For one thing, Putin is out to get us. He believes his nation's greatest tragedy was the fall of the Soviet Union, which he now wants to restore under greater Russia. This he wants to accomplish through steamrolling his neighbors, and taking down enemies he blames for Russia's demise - namely us and our European allies.
And another thing, it was you guys on the right who were for the most part fanatical Russophobes back in the '50s, right down to the Anti-Red persecution that had ruined the lives of millions of Americans. The American left's opposition to Putin isn't a revival of Cold War fears, but fear of a potential coming age of Strongmen, directed from the Kremlin.


Oh for f***'s sake, why, if he is as you believe, a crooked kleptocratic gangster who has plundered his country, murdered his opponents, is (according to some) the RICHEST man on Earth, and has absolute control of his country, willing to risk all of that for a restoration of the USSR? Do you even remember how things were in the USSR? Apart from perhaps under the rule of Stalin, it was the C.P.S.U. that wielded ultimate control, and was the ultimate authority, not any one man. How about some consistency in your narrative, if you don't mind. You're starting to sound like CNN.

By the way, yes, the fall of the USSR actually WAS a catastrophe, for many reasons. That's not news (well, maybe for you it is).


Putin doesn't literally want to bring back the communism of the Soviet Union, or their governmental system, but rather wants to see the power of Russia restored.
As for your other posts:
Wanting what's best for his country is one thing, but wanting to bring us down because of how he blames us for bringing down Russian is quite another.
In regard to his past history - that's in reference to his interfering with the elections of other countries, of his military interventions, and his trail of assassinations.
But seriously, why are you guys on the right, who have a long history of attacking the left for their alleged lack of loyalty to America, suddenly so in love with Putin and Russia that you'll side with them over your own country?


Why are you currently siding against our country and president? Are you more loyal to Europe than you are this country? You are being manipulated by the corporate interests which control our country's media, CNN is seriously rotting your brain.


I like to think of myself as the loyal opposition. I criticize a President and party I don't like, but I will never choose any other country over America.
And what's the alternative to the mainstream media? Fox? Alex Jones? Breitbart? And what problem do you have with the mainstream media, besides that they don't tell you the narrative you want to hear?


If you don't mind my two cents worth, the problem I have with CNN, is it's always full of hit pieces. That seems to be its main focus since November. It's not like actual news any longer. It's more like "we really really hate the President".

(And no, I don't turn to Fox either and I've never been to Alex Jones or Breitbart.)


Yes, CNN isn't afraid to be critical of the President. But recall, he had started the vendetta with them by calling them fake news, even before his election. He hadn't even tried having a constructive relationship with them, preferring specious, real fake news outlets like Fox, Breitbart, and Alex Jones. Besides, a free society needs a free press that isn't afraid to be critical of the Commander-in-Chief.
Just where do you get your news from, if not the media?


So you're saying the media is limited to what's listed above? Or that only CNN qualifies as media?

What I do is seek what are considered to be the least biased objective news sources. I determine this looking up many different lists of which media is considered to be the most reliable along these lines. Reuters is one that appeared on most such lists. What didn't make the cut on any list was CNN. However in lists of the most biased news, CNN came up at the top consistently right along with Fox.

I'm not sure what the Cable News Network used to be, but these days it appears to be in the vendetta business. Its headlines resemble the tabloid covers I see in the grocery store checkout stands.



kraftiekortie
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30 May 2017, 9:42 am

National Public Radio, probably, is a pretty unbiased news source, though it might lean towards the liberal (even though it doesn't necessarily think of itself as being "liberal."



EzraS
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30 May 2017, 10:30 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
National Public Radio, probably, is a pretty unbiased news source, though it might lean towards the liberal (even though it doesn't necessarily think of itself as being "liberal."


Right NPR is another I see endorsed a lot. Along with PBS. USA Today seems a little better. US News and World Report. CBS news seems the best of the original 3 networks. Whatever comes of as dry, straightforward to the point of being kinda boring, is what I gravitate towards. Stuff that's all colorful and splashy with tabloid/clickbait looking headlines/stories is what I avoid. Some stuff looks about as reliable as the Onion. Like the Washington Post for instance. Some folks just want the news and some folks want sensationalistic juicy stories.



Last edited by EzraS on 30 May 2017, 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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30 May 2017, 10:33 am

I bet you would have liked Walter Cronkite. He was as dry as they came, even though he was known as being pretty liberal.

He was everybody's uncle, father, big brother, etc. from the early 60s through to the early 80s. He only revealed his liberal politics, for the most part, after he retired as an anchorman.

He was the CBS main anchorman from about 1963 to 1981.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 30 May 2017, 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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30 May 2017, 10:46 am

Even though the media was biased even in the old days, this bias was hardly ever revealed within national news programs until, probably, the 1990s.

Local news, starting about the 1970s, started to be less objective.



kraftiekortie
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30 May 2017, 10:50 am

Archie Bunker, even, was a great Walter Cronkite fan.



Kraichgauer
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30 May 2017, 11:50 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
For one thing, Putin is out to get us. He believes his nation's greatest tragedy was the fall of the Soviet Union, which he now wants to restore under greater Russia. This he wants to accomplish through steamrolling his neighbors, and taking down enemies he blames for Russia's demise - namely us and our European allies.
And another thing, it was you guys on the right who were for the most part fanatical Russophobes back in the '50s, right down to the Anti-Red persecution that had ruined the lives of millions of Americans. The American left's opposition to Putin isn't a revival of Cold War fears, but fear of a potential coming age of Strongmen, directed from the Kremlin.


Oh for f***'s sake, why, if he is as you believe, a crooked kleptocratic gangster who has plundered his country, murdered his opponents, is (according to some) the RICHEST man on Earth, and has absolute control of his country, willing to risk all of that for a restoration of the USSR? Do you even remember how things were in the USSR? Apart from perhaps under the rule of Stalin, it was the C.P.S.U. that wielded ultimate control, and was the ultimate authority, not any one man. How about some consistency in your narrative, if you don't mind. You're starting to sound like CNN.

By the way, yes, the fall of the USSR actually WAS a catastrophe, for many reasons. That's not news (well, maybe for you it is).


Putin doesn't literally want to bring back the communism of the Soviet Union, or their governmental system, but rather wants to see the power of Russia restored.
As for your other posts:
Wanting what's best for his country is one thing, but wanting to bring us down because of how he blames us for bringing down Russian is quite another.
In regard to his past history - that's in reference to his interfering with the elections of other countries, of his military interventions, and his trail of assassinations.
But seriously, why are you guys on the right, who have a long history of attacking the left for their alleged lack of loyalty to America, suddenly so in love with Putin and Russia that you'll side with them over your own country?


Why are you currently siding against our country and president? Are you more loyal to Europe than you are this country? You are being manipulated by the corporate interests which control our country's media, CNN is seriously rotting your brain.


I like to think of myself as the loyal opposition. I criticize a President and party I don't like, but I will never choose any other country over America.
And what's the alternative to the mainstream media? Fox? Alex Jones? Breitbart? And what problem do you have with the mainstream media, besides that they don't tell you the narrative you want to hear?


If you don't mind my two cents worth, the problem I have with CNN, is it's always full of hit pieces. That seems to be its main focus since November. It's not like actual news any longer. It's more like "we really really hate the President".

(And no, I don't turn to Fox either and I've never been to Alex Jones or Breitbart.)


Yes, CNN isn't afraid to be critical of the President. But recall, he had started the vendetta with them by calling them fake news, even before his election. He hadn't even tried having a constructive relationship with them, preferring specious, real fake news outlets like Fox, Breitbart, and Alex Jones. Besides, a free society needs a free press that isn't afraid to be critical of the Commander-in-Chief.
Just where do you get your news from, if not the media?


So you're saying the media is limited to what's listed above? Or that only CNN qualifies as media?

What I do is seek what are considered to be the least biased objective news sources. I determine this looking up many different lists of which media is considered to be the most reliable along these lines. Reuters is one that appeared on most such lists. What didn't make the cut on any list was CNN. However in lists of the most biased news, CNN came up at the top consistently right along with Fox.

I'm not sure what the Cable News Network used to be, but these days it appears to be in the vendetta business. Its headlines resemble the tabloid covers I see in the grocery store checkout stands.


Say what you will, I still find CNN the most reliable source.


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Jacoby
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30 May 2017, 11:52 am

lol dont get made when people call you out on it then bill

you parrot talking points verbatim



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30 May 2017, 12:22 pm

Jacoby wrote:
lol dont get made when people call you out on it then bill

you parrot talking points verbatim


Believe as you like; that's your constitutional right. It's my right to believe what I know to be true, as well.


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EzraS
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30 May 2017, 12:48 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Say what you will, I still find CNN the most reliable source.


I'll stick with what are universally considered to be the most unbiased objective news sources.



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30 May 2017, 1:00 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Say what you will, I still find CNN the most reliable source.


I'll stick with what are universally considered to be the most unbiased objective news sources.


Which are?


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30 May 2017, 1:26 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Say what you will, I still find CNN the most reliable source.


I'll stick with what are universally considered to be the most unbiased objective news sources.


Which are?


Reuters, PBS, CSPAN, NPR, AP, BBC, USA Today, World News (wn.com). Plus I run stuff through Snopes and Politifact.


It seems like whenever I check CNN I always see something like this first thing:

Image

And to me that just looks something on a tabloid cover.