20 Aug 2019, 11:16 pm
20 Aug 2019, 11:27 pm
beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Keeping people on welfare gets votes and dependency.
For Reagan keeping people on the lowest possible wage gave the illusion there was less people on welfare.
Unskilled labor gets low wages. What you are advocating is more give them something for nothing. Even if they did not apply themselves, they should get paid the same as those who did.
Or to put it another way it's republican talk for smoke and mirrors to say we got people of welfare by putting more of them on below minimum wage and making them feel like s**t if they think of asking for financial assistance to feed their children or pay their rent or pay school/medical bills.
Someone has spending problem(s), so give them free money?
I would think 95% of the population would soon have a "spending problem", so they could get on this gravy train.
This is why ideological conservatives say , "Socialism destroys the incentive to work".
Waite Park Millionaire Goes On Food Stamps To Show Loopholes
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/04/ ... gislature/
How millionaires collect food stamps
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-millio ... 1516044026
Why Are Millionaires Able to Receive Food Stamps?
https://fee.org/articles/why-are-millio ... od-stamps/
So getting medical treatment or going to school should be no different than buying a Lexis? Is that what you're saying?
Also, we're talking about people who do work, often multiple jobs. And yet, you call them lazy?
Do you guys have any idea how physically draining it is to wash dishes all day or work as a server or bartender?
I don't think poor people are lazy, it's very likely the opposite; the poor person works harder, as manual labor jobs tend to pay much less than education office jobs.
However, I do think most poor people have poor financial management skills. That's how the credit card industry / payday loan stores / pawn shops exist. And it's these poor skills that contribute to their problems.
Conservatives believe in giving a helping hand, but don't want it bit off.
20 Aug 2019, 11:34 pm
LoveNotHate wrote:
beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Keeping people on welfare gets votes and dependency.
For Reagan keeping people on the lowest possible wage gave the illusion there was less people on welfare.
Unskilled labor gets low wages. What you are advocating is more give them something for nothing. Even if they did not apply themselves, they should get paid the same as those who did.
Or to put it another way it's republican talk for smoke and mirrors to say we got people of welfare by putting more of them on below minimum wage and making them feel like s**t if they think of asking for financial assistance to feed their children or pay their rent or pay school/medical bills.
Someone has spending problem(s), so give them free money?
I would think 95% of the population would soon have a "spending problem", so they could get on this gravy train.
This is why ideological conservatives say , "Socialism destroys the incentive to work".
Waite Park Millionaire Goes On Food Stamps To Show Loopholes
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/04/ ... gislature/
How millionaires collect food stamps
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-millio ... 1516044026
Why Are Millionaires Able to Receive Food Stamps?
https://fee.org/articles/why-are-millio ... od-stamps/
So getting medical treatment or going to school should be no different than buying a Lexis? Is that what you're saying?
Also, we're talking about people who do work, often multiple jobs. And yet, you call them lazy?
Do you guys have any idea how physically draining it is to wash dishes all day or work as a server or bartender?
I don't think poor people are lazy, it's very likely the opposite; the poor person works harder, as manual labor jobs tend to pay much less than education office jobs.
However, I do think most poor people have poor financial management skills. That's how the credit card industry / payday loan stores / pawn shops exist. And it's these poor skills that contribute to their problems.
Conservatives believe in giving a helping hand, but don't want it bit off.
Obviously, I do agree that's important, but it won't help them afford complex medical care unless they can get some sort of coverage. So why would should we suppose that medical care should be dependent on it?
20 Aug 2019, 11:36 pm
20 Aug 2019, 11:41 pm
LoveNotHate wrote:
Looks Like a conservative right wing wet dream
That door where almost everyone is pouring into are actually people hovering around the minimum wage who are one unpaid bill away from being homeless or on welfare.
The welfare state works in Scandanavia, Australia, New Zealand and Canada. In addition there's free heath and education. You have to ask why America choose to continue vilifying the poor like their brains are in a time machine from the old England of Dickens where the poor knew their place.
20 Aug 2019, 11:46 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
20 Aug 2019, 11:52 pm
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Americans - I think especially conservatives - like to say we are a Christian nation. If that's true, then we can't say it's each individuals responsibility to get along, or just go die if they can't. That's hardly the real Christian message, though many conservatives have attached themselves to very errant evangelical theologies such as the prosperity gospel which says God rewards the righteous with material wealth and curses the unrighteous with poverty. Trump's bought into that, hook, line, and sinker. It justifies not helping those in need, while magnifying the rich. Real Christianity means helping those down and out, not jugging them, or putting them through a litmus test for if they're really deserving of help. And it goes beyond individual or church charity, and includes paying taxes for the well being of our fellow brothers and sisters in need if we're the Christian country we're supposed to be.
Conservatives believe they're helping people when they get them off of assistance programs and onto self-reliance.
When did I ever say helping people get back on their feet is a bad thing? The problem with conservatives is, they are so pro-business that they don't support raising the minimum wage or support universal health care, leaving people worse off than they'd be on public assistance. Give people an incentive to aspire for that includes a good wage and actual benefits whether provided by the employer or the government, not some Horatio Alger fantasy of getting rewarded for saving a rich man's daughter from a run away carriage, and people will take it.
21 Aug 2019, 12:38 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Americans - I think especially conservatives - like to say we are a Christian nation. If that's true, then we can't say it's each individuals responsibility to get along, or just go die if they can't. That's hardly the real Christian message, though many conservatives have attached themselves to very errant evangelical theologies such as the prosperity gospel which says God rewards the righteous with material wealth and curses the unrighteous with poverty. Trump's bought into that, hook, line, and sinker. It justifies not helping those in need, while magnifying the rich. Real Christianity means helping those down and out, not jugging them, or putting them through a litmus test for if they're really deserving of help. And it goes beyond individual or church charity, and includes paying taxes for the well being of our fellow brothers and sisters in need if we're the Christian country we're supposed to be.
Conservatives believe they're helping people when they get them off of assistance programs and onto self-reliance.
When did I ever say helping people get back on their feet is a bad thing? The problem with conservatives is, they are so pro-business that they don't support raising the minimum wage or support universal health care, leaving people worse off than they'd be on public assistance. Give people an incentive to aspire for that includes a good wage and actual benefits whether provided by the employer or the government, not some Horatio Alger fantasy of getting rewarded for saving a rich man's daughter from a run away carriage, and people will take it.
So so so much this!
21 Aug 2019, 1:21 am
21 Aug 2019, 1:29 am
21 Aug 2019, 1:42 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Americans - I think especially conservatives - like to say we are a Christian nation. If that's true, then we can't say it's each individuals responsibility to get along, or just go die if they can't. That's hardly the real Christian message, though many conservatives have attached themselves to very errant evangelical theologies such as the prosperity gospel which says God rewards the righteous with material wealth and curses the unrighteous with poverty. Trump's bought into that, hook, line, and sinker. It justifies not helping those in need, while magnifying the rich. Real Christianity means helping those down and out, not jugging them, or putting them through a litmus test for if they're really deserving of help. And it goes beyond individual or church charity, and includes paying taxes for the well being of our fellow brothers and sisters in need if we're the Christian country we're supposed to be.
Conservatives believe they're helping people when they get them off of assistance programs and onto self-reliance.
When did I ever say helping people get back on their feet is a bad thing? The problem with conservatives is, they are so pro-business that they don't support raising the minimum wage or support universal health care, leaving people worse off than they'd be on public assistance. Give people an incentive to aspire for that includes a good wage and actual benefits whether provided by the employer or the government, not some Horatio Alger fantasy of getting rewarded for saving a rich man's daughter from a run away carriage, and people will take it.
Raisiing the minamum wage just raises prices. Every time there is a big spike in the minimum wage there is a big spike in prices. So it does them no good. And makes it difficult for those on those on a fixed income. If the minimum wage was raised to $25 an hour, then they would end up paying $15 for something they used to pay $8 for before the raise. The incentive to make better wages is to do what it takes to get a better paying job.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
21 Aug 2019, 2:03 am
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Americans - I think especially conservatives - like to say we are a Christian nation. If that's true, then we can't say it's each individuals responsibility to get along, or just go die if they can't. That's hardly the real Christian message, though many conservatives have attached themselves to very errant evangelical theologies such as the prosperity gospel which says God rewards the righteous with material wealth and curses the unrighteous with poverty. Trump's bought into that, hook, line, and sinker. It justifies not helping those in need, while magnifying the rich. Real Christianity means helping those down and out, not jugging them, or putting them through a litmus test for if they're really deserving of help. And it goes beyond individual or church charity, and includes paying taxes for the well being of our fellow brothers and sisters in need if we're the Christian country we're supposed to be.
Conservatives believe they're helping people when they get them off of assistance programs and onto self-reliance.
When did I ever say helping people get back on their feet is a bad thing? The problem with conservatives is, they are so pro-business that they don't support raising the minimum wage or support universal health care, leaving people worse off than they'd be on public assistance. Give people an incentive to aspire for that includes a good wage and actual benefits whether provided by the employer or the government, not some Horatio Alger fantasy of getting rewarded for saving a rich man's daughter from a run away carriage, and people will take it.
Raisiing the minamum wage just raises prices. Every time there is a big spike in the minimum wage there is a big spike in prices. So it does them no good. And makes it difficult for those on those on a fixed income. If the minimum wage was raised to $25 an hour, then they would end up paying $15 for something they used to pay $8 for before the raise. The incentive to make better wages is to do what it takes to get a better paying job.
Businesses raise prices for goods and services anyhow, making it harder for working people to make purchases, hence the entire economy suffers in the long term. On top of that, wages in general have been stagnate for years. All opposing a minimum wage hike does is ensure a permanent under class of workers.
21 Aug 2019, 2:19 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Americans - I think especially conservatives - like to say we are a Christian nation. If that's true, then we can't say it's each individuals responsibility to get along, or just go die if they can't. That's hardly the real Christian message, though many conservatives have attached themselves to very errant evangelical theologies such as the prosperity gospel which says God rewards the righteous with material wealth and curses the unrighteous with poverty. Trump's bought into that, hook, line, and sinker. It justifies not helping those in need, while magnifying the rich. Real Christianity means helping those down and out, not jugging them, or putting them through a litmus test for if they're really deserving of help. And it goes beyond individual or church charity, and includes paying taxes for the well being of our fellow brothers and sisters in need if we're the Christian country we're supposed to be.
Conservatives believe they're helping people when they get them off of assistance programs and onto self-reliance.
When did I ever say helping people get back on their feet is a bad thing? The problem with conservatives is, they are so pro-business that they don't support raising the minimum wage or support universal health care, leaving people worse off than they'd be on public assistance. Give people an incentive to aspire for that includes a good wage and actual benefits whether provided by the employer or the government, not some Horatio Alger fantasy of getting rewarded for saving a rich man's daughter from a run away carriage, and people will take it.
Raisiing the minamum wage just raises prices. Every time there is a big spike in the minimum wage there is a big spike in prices. So it does them no good. And makes it difficult for those on those on a fixed income. If the minimum wage was raised to $25 an hour, then they would end up paying $15 for something they used to pay $8 for before the raise. The incentive to make better wages is to do what it takes to get a better paying job.
Businesses raise prices for goods and services anyhow, making it harder for working people to make purchases, hence the entire economy suffers in the long term. On top of that, wages in general have been stagnate for years. All opposing a minimum wage hike does is ensure a permanent under class of workers.
From what I am seeing looking at Department of Labor & Industry charts, the minimum wage has increased annually. The opposition is against a sudden substantial increase. Are you wanting there to be a universal wage for unskilled laborers to get paid the same as skilled ones? A 16 year old kid flipping burgers should get paid the same as a technician?
21 Aug 2019, 3:50 am
21 Aug 2019, 11:41 am
21 Aug 2019, 12:49 pm
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Americans - I think especially conservatives - like to say we are a Christian nation. If that's true, then we can't say it's each individuals responsibility to get along, or just go die if they can't. That's hardly the real Christian message, though many conservatives have attached themselves to very errant evangelical theologies such as the prosperity gospel which says God rewards the righteous with material wealth and curses the unrighteous with poverty. Trump's bought into that, hook, line, and sinker. It justifies not helping those in need, while magnifying the rich. Real Christianity means helping those down and out, not jugging them, or putting them through a litmus test for if they're really deserving of help. And it goes beyond individual or church charity, and includes paying taxes for the well being of our fellow brothers and sisters in need if we're the Christian country we're supposed to be.
Conservatives believe they're helping people when they get them off of assistance programs and onto self-reliance.
When did I ever say helping people get back on their feet is a bad thing? The problem with conservatives is, they are so pro-business that they don't support raising the minimum wage or support universal health care, leaving people worse off than they'd be on public assistance. Give people an incentive to aspire for that includes a good wage and actual benefits whether provided by the employer or the government, not some Horatio Alger fantasy of getting rewarded for saving a rich man's daughter from a run away carriage, and people will take it.
Raisiing the minamum wage just raises prices. Every time there is a big spike in the minimum wage there is a big spike in prices. So it does them no good. And makes it difficult for those on those on a fixed income. If the minimum wage was raised to $25 an hour, then they would end up paying $15 for something they used to pay $8 for before the raise. The incentive to make better wages is to do what it takes to get a better paying job.
Businesses raise prices for goods and services anyhow, making it harder for working people to make purchases, hence the entire economy suffers in the long term. On top of that, wages in general have been stagnate for years. All opposing a minimum wage hike does is ensure a permanent under class of workers.
From what I am seeing looking at Department of Labor & Industry charts, the minimum wage has increased annually. The opposition is against a sudden substantial increase. Are you wanting there to be a universal wage for unskilled laborers to get paid the same as skilled ones? A 16 year old kid flipping burgers should get paid the same as a technician?
Burger King should pay their workers Four Seasons wages, but still make hamburgers cheap. I don't think they taught me that philosophy in economics.
