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Mass Shooting in Michigan High School

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Kraichgauer
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04 Dec 2021, 6:56 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
No, she hadn't mentioned ammo, but that was what she was referring to.
As I understood it, the parents didn't want to take the kid back with them. Too concerned with the mother's realtor business or something, I suppose.


Sounds like the mother wasn't thinking straight when they took off. How the heck does a wanted suspect plan to run their realtor business while on the run from the police :lol:


More interested in saving her and her husband's skin, I'd think.


Yes, panic....run!


The fact that they were going to desert their son, who needed them more than ever, says volumes about their lack of worth as parents and as human beings.


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cyberdad
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04 Dec 2021, 7:00 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
The fact that they were going to desert their son, who needed them more than ever, says volumes about their lack of worth as parents and as human beings.


There is a pattern I have noticed with trumpfans. Some of the Jan 6 rioters threatened their own children with physical violence if they told the police about their misadventures in the capitol building.



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04 Dec 2021, 7:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
No, she hadn't mentioned ammo, but that was what she was referring to.
.

or "Don't get caught" simply meant don't get caught using your phone in class.


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04 Dec 2021, 7:52 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:
Even if negligence itself isn't illegal, if negligence leads to crime, that negligence can still be a contributing factor. There are scores of things that aren't illegal, that become a problem when a crime becomes part of the chain of events. And just cos it's legal, doesn't mean it's wise. It's often not illegal to let your own house fall apart - but you're still responsible if someone gets hurt.

I'm sure that the fact that leaving the firearm unsecured wasn't actually illegal is a huge comfort to everyone. Big sigh of relief.

What's their gross negligence?

The parents kept the gun in a drawer in their bedroom.


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uncommondenominator
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04 Dec 2021, 8:05 pm

cyberdad wrote:
is that a mini-Uzi the little blonde girl is hugging like a doll?


Not a mini, that's a standard UZI. Poppa's got some type of SAW, Momma's got a Thompson, looks like two classic A2 AR rifles, one modern AR clone, and a G3 clone with some AR hardware.



Kraichgauer
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04 Dec 2021, 8:15 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
No, she hadn't mentioned ammo, but that was what she was referring to.
.

or "Don't get caught" simply meant don't get caught using your phone in class.


I very much doubt that. It was right after he got in trouble the first time with the ammo.


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Kraichgauer
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04 Dec 2021, 8:19 pm

Here's a little something demonstrating the current frame of mind of the shooter's parents.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/locked-sulle ... 35309.html


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cyberdad
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04 Dec 2021, 8:20 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
is that a mini-Uzi the little blonde girl is hugging like a doll?


Not a mini, that's a standard UZI. Poppa's got some type of SAW, Momma's got a Thompson, looks like two classic A2 AR rifles, one modern AR clone, and a G3 clone with some AR hardware.


Awww how cute. I wonder if she gets to carry her UZI with her when she goes trick or treating at Halloween?

Better have that candy ready....or else :lol:



cyberdad
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04 Dec 2021, 8:22 pm

@Robot

The parents ignored clear warning signs conveyed by the school hours before the attack.



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04 Dec 2021, 8:26 pm

cyberdad wrote:
@Robot

The parents ignored clear warning signs conveyed by the school hours before the attack.

The school appears to have simply told the parents to seek counseling for their child.


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cyberdad
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04 Dec 2021, 8:30 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
@Robot

The parents ignored clear warning signs conveyed by the school hours before the attack.

The school appears to have simply told the parents to seek counseling for their child.


The link Kraichgauer provided suggest they communicated the content of the note before the shooting?



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04 Dec 2021, 8:32 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
@Robot

The parents ignored clear warning signs conveyed by the school hours before the attack.

The school appears to have simply told the parents to seek counseling for their child.


The link Kraichgauer provided suggest they communicated the content of the note before the shooting?

So, the school told the parents to seek counseling, and sent the child back to class.

Everything is OK?


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demeus
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04 Dec 2021, 8:41 pm

Fnord wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Prosecutor Karen McDonald told a news conference the charges were intended to "send a message: that gun owners have a responsibility". ... the prosecutor is making a political statement about gun ownership.
TheRobotLives wrote:
Negligence of not securing the firearm is not an issue, as Michigan does not have such a law...
Do you really need a law to tell you how to exercise common sense?

The parents did not secure the firearm, and the child used it to murder four people and terrorize a school.

In this case, common sense says either "Parents should secure their firearms" or "Idiots should not have children".

Obviously, common sense was lacking on both counts.


If the only fact was that the parents did not secure the firearm, the prosecution would have probably already said to go to civil court. There are also other factors here:

1) The parents bought said gun for their child even though it was illegal for the child to own, carry, or even use said gun anywhere except for a shooting range or on their property if they owned a large enough piece of land.

2) The parents advertised that they specifically purchases said gun for the child on social media

3) When the child went searching for ammo and was caught, the parents were blaise about it

4) The parents insisted that the child remain in school when the school requested that the child go to counseling (although on this point, the school should have forced the parents to take the child home that day OR demanded permission to search the child's belongings as a condition for the child to remain at school).

The parents actions prior to the shooting suggests more than negligence. It will now be up to a jury to decide if the actions are criminal rather than civil.



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04 Dec 2021, 8:43 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The parents blew off the school when they were told about concerns about their son. The fact that they apparently did nothing - even being flippant about it - tells me some sort of legal action of some sort should be taken against said parents.
The fact that these wonderful parents (sarcasm alert, I must say, as this is an autism site) fled after withdrawing thousands of dollars, speaks of consciouness of guilt.


No more than the school did; they could have searched the kid if they were really concerned about it, but apparently they also chose not to take this particular warning sign too seriously.

The issue here is that there is no actual law covering what the parent might have done, keeping a pistol in an unlocked drawer in your bedroom with a teen in the house might not be smart or advisable, but it also isn't illegal, let alone rising to the level of reckless negligence required for a manslaughter charge. They certainly could be civilly liable, but seeing as how their entire "getaway fund" was $4K, they might be judgment proof there as well. We'll have to wait and see what they say about the fleeing, their lawyer says they weren't, and the whole arrest warrant thing was so flubbed that the sheriff heard about it from the media before getting the warrant himself, so it's not exactly a shining beacon of competence over there.


So, you think the school is at least as guilty as the parents???
Even if four thousand isn't a lot by today's standards, the two not only fled, but also hid in a warehouse and turned off their phones to avoid being found. I can't see any other explanation for their actions other than running from the authorities.
Maybe it's not against the law to leave a gun available to a psycho kid, but after this, laws will be enacted to prevent just that.


The question there is whether the school should have demanded that they be allowed to search the child's belongings in order for the child to remain at school or absent of parental permission, have reasonable suspicion to search the child's belongings.



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04 Dec 2021, 9:00 pm

demeus wrote:
1) The parents bought said gun for their child even though it was illegal for the child to own, carry, or even use said gun anywhere except for a shooting range or on their property if they owned a large enough piece of land.

2) The parents advertised that they specifically purchases said gun for the child on social media

3) When the child went searching for ammo and was caught, the parents were blaise about it

These points #1-3 are everyday legal activity.

As you note, parents can buy guns for their children because children can legally use them for hunting and on shooting ranges.

It's not surprising the kid wanted to get ammo for his new gun (that he just got a few days earlier).

That's how kids are.

demeus wrote:
4) The parents insisted that the child remain in school when the school requested that the child go to counseling (although on this point, the school should have forced the parents to take the child home that day OR demanded permission to search the child's belongings as a condition for the child to remain at school).

The school did not expect the parents to run out to a psychologist at that moment.

It takes time to find a doctor who would take him, and their health insurance, and schedule an appointment.


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cyberdad
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04 Dec 2021, 9:38 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
3) When the child went searching for ammo and was caught, the parents were blaise about it

As you note, parents can buy guns for their children because children can legally use them for hunting and on shooting ranges.

It's not surprising the kid wanted to get ammo for his new gun (that he just got a few days earlier).

That's how kids are.


What you posted here is precisely what is wrong with American gun laws (amongst a myriad of other concerns) in relation to children. The supporters of US gun laws think it's ok for "little sally" and "little Timmy" to have armed weapons that can kill. It not not only normalises weapons to children (like Rittenhouse, Roof or Zimmerman) but when you put weapons in the hands of a 15-17 yr old you are literally playing Russian roulette with everyone's lives.

No normal parent would think a child has the capacity to make rationale decisions with a loaded gun. Mrs Rittenhouse made that mistake when she let her son play with guns and live ammo. Look what happened there.