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Putin recognizes rebel territories in Ukraine as indepent !

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The_Face_of_Boo
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24 Feb 2022, 5:25 am



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 24 Feb 2022, 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

The_Walrus
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24 Feb 2022, 7:28 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
magz wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Eastern NATO members had a bloody good reason to join NATO for protection.

That's precisely what I'm trying to say, from my very concerned position.


I bet they would do nothing if he invades Poland too. Don’t have too much faith in NATO.

The West’s borders ends at Germany, anything further east doesn’t matter.

I don’t think this is at all right. The West does care about Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia, and it practically has to care about Poland given the strong ties between Poland and the major Western European countries. Polish is the second most widely spoken language in the UK ahead of Welsh. All four are also EU countries. And of course, Germany doesn’t want any more Russians right on the doorstep.

Moreover, the second NATO fails to defend a member, the whole alliance collapses. We will defend each other because we have promised to, and because it is right, and because we know we’ll be next if we don’t.



The_Face_of_Boo
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24 Feb 2022, 7:57 am

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The_Face_of_Boo
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24 Feb 2022, 7:59 am



magz
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24 Feb 2022, 8:12 am

The_Walrus wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
magz wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Eastern NATO members had a bloody good reason to join NATO for protection.

That's precisely what I'm trying to say, from my very concerned position.


I bet they would do nothing if he invades Poland too. Don’t have too much faith in NATO.

The West’s borders ends at Germany, anything further east doesn’t matter.

I don’t think this is at all right. The West does care about Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia, and it practically has to care about Poland given the strong ties between Poland and the major Western European countries. Polish is the second most widely spoken language in the UK ahead of Welsh. All four are also EU countries. And of course, Germany doesn’t want any more Russians right on the doorstep.

Moreover, the second NATO fails to defend a member, the whole alliance collapses. We will defend each other because we have promised to, and because it is right, and because we know we’ll be next if we don’t.

Honestly?
We need to be prepared for both possibilities.


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<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


The_Face_of_Boo
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24 Feb 2022, 8:18 am

Why Ukraine's admission into Nato had been on hold for more than 10 years? Simply because they don't want to anger Russia.
NATO gambled with Ukrainian Lives in standoff with Russia by ignoring this reality and now it lost it. Ukraine would never had been accepted into the alliance, if the West was more honest about this reality then this war could be avoided.



The_Walrus
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24 Feb 2022, 8:22 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Why Ukraine's admission into Nato had been on hold for more than 10 years? Simply because they don't want to anger Russia.
NATO gambled with Ukrainian Lives in standoff with Russia by ignoring this reality and now it lost it. Ukraine would never had been accepted into the alliance, if the West was more honest about this reality then this war could be avoided.

Nah, Putin would have invaded no matter what. There was no appeasing him. He was threatening to invade unless NATO kicked out Bulgaria.



magz
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24 Feb 2022, 8:23 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Why Ukraine's admission into Nato had been on hold for more than 10 years? Simply because they don't want to anger Russia.
NATO gambled with Ukrainian Lives in standoff with Russia by ignoring this reality and now it lost it. Ukraine would never had been accepted into the alliance, if the West was more honest about this reality then this war could be avoided.

It wouldn't, just like war in Georgia in 2008 wasn't.


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24 Feb 2022, 8:36 am

Putin wants to return to the "glory days" of the USSR. Putin wants places like Georgia to be back in the Russian fold.

Putin is lying through his teeth about a "genocide" against Russian speakers in east Ukraine.



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24 Feb 2022, 9:00 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Putin wants to return to the "glory days" of the USSR. Putin wants places like Georgia to be back in the Russian fold.

Putin is lying through his teeth about a "genocide" against Russian speakers in east Ukraine.


Yeah.....genocide. Yawn.



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24 Feb 2022, 9:08 am

Putin is Big Brotheresque 1984----he must be stopped



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24 Feb 2022, 9:13 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Putin is Big Brotheresque 1984----he must be stopped


Are you saying this because you're an American and nothing more? You implied that being an American you can't have Putin getting his way a few pages ago.

It probably sums up the whole mess Ukraine is in right now where simply being from a certain country is grounds for looking at another with suspicion, even for events that are not effecting your own country.



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24 Feb 2022, 9:32 am

Nades wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Putin is Big Brotheresque 1984----he must be stopped


Are you saying this because you're an American and nothing more? You implied that being an American you can't have Putin getting his way a few pages ago.

It probably sums up the whole mess Ukraine is in right now where simply being from a certain country is grounds for looking at another with suspicion, even for events that are not effecting your own country.

No, he’s saying it because it is true.

The issue with Putin isn’t that he’s Russian. There are lots of Russians who do not support him. I know some and I am sure Kraftie does as well. Indeed, standing with the Russian opposition, which Putin is violently suppressing (Navalny et al.) is one reason to hate Putin.

No, the reason to hate Putin is because… well there are a lot, he’s a tyrant who is suppressing Russian democracy, he is undermining the sovereignty of ex-Soviet republics, he has arranged the murders of dissidents overseas, oh and yeah, he ordered the invasion of another country leading to rockets being fired at Kyiv and the likely conquering of Ukraine. The fact that he’s Russian? Nobody gives a toss.



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24 Feb 2022, 9:35 am

Imagine if Boris Johnson alleged the existence of a genocide in Ireland against English protestants----to justify the conquering of Ireland?



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24 Feb 2022, 9:41 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Imagine if Boris Johnson alleged the existence of a genocide in Ireland against English protestants----to justify the conquering of Ireland?



Putin is saying some impressively dull c**p to justify his invasion, but it's not really detracting away from his likely true motives of NATO and European influence encroaching to close to home for his liking.



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24 Feb 2022, 9:42 am

There will be a wheat crisis.