15 Sep 2010, 2:44 pm
15 Sep 2010, 3:25 pm
15 Sep 2010, 5:56 pm
cyberscan
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16 Sep 2010, 1:09 am
Kraichgauer
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16 Sep 2010, 3:21 am
Geez, being full of crap isn't just a symptom of NT'sm.
Obama is a natural born American citizen; the fact that he has any certificate maintaining his nationality at birth is more than enough to prove this. And pleas, at least have enough courage to admit what this is really about - you don't want to unseat Obama because of any profound love of the constitution, it's because you don't like his politics, or the color of his skin. Just grow a pair, and admit it. 
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
cyberscan
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16 Sep 2010, 6:15 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Geez, being full of crap isn't just a symptom of NT'sm.
Obama is a natural born American citizen; the fact that he has any certificate maintaining his nationality at birth is more than enough to prove this. And pleas, at least have enough courage to admit what this is really about - you don't want to unseat Obama because of any profound love of the constitution, it's because you don't like his politics, or the color of his skin. Just grow a pair, and admit it.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Obama is a natural born American citizen; the fact that he has any certificate maintaining his nationality at birth is more than enough to prove this. And pleas, at least have enough courage to admit what this is really about - you don't want to unseat Obama because of any profound love of the constitution, it's because you don't like his politics, or the color of his skin. Just grow a pair, and admit it.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
I never said that he wasn't a natural born citizen. I always said that I believe that he is. I would like to see him impeached (liked I wanted both Clinton and Bush impeached) due to the fact that they are not loyal to the Constitution. I have no problem with the color of his skin,. I live in a multiracial home. My little sister is black. When people win an argument, the opposition likes to attack accusing the winner of racism. I could give a crap less about the color of his skin. This has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with his lack of loyalty to the Constitution and the direction he is taking the country.
16 Sep 2010, 6:36 am
cyberscan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Geez, being full of crap isn't just a symptom of NT'sm.
Obama is a natural born American citizen; the fact that he has any certificate maintaining his nationality at birth is more than enough to prove this. And pleas, at least have enough courage to admit what this is really about - you don't want to unseat Obama because of any profound love of the constitution, it's because you don't like his politics, or the color of his skin. Just grow a pair, and admit it.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Obama is a natural born American citizen; the fact that he has any certificate maintaining his nationality at birth is more than enough to prove this. And pleas, at least have enough courage to admit what this is really about - you don't want to unseat Obama because of any profound love of the constitution, it's because you don't like his politics, or the color of his skin. Just grow a pair, and admit it.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
I never said that he wasn't a natural born citizen. I always said that I believe that he is. I would like to see him impeached (liked I wanted both Clinton and Bush impeached) due to the fact that they are not loyal to the Constitution. I have no problem with the color of his skin,. I live in a multiracial home. My little sister is black. When people win an argument, the opposition likes to attack accusing the winner of racism. I could give a crap less about the color of his skin. This has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with his lack of loyalty to the Constitution and the direction he is taking the country.
Presidents are impeached for "high crimes and misdemeanors" which is a political category of acts defined by the sitting House of Representatives and the Senate. What you consider disloyalty to the Constitution is an opinion and a sign of your disapproval.
ruveyn
cyberscan
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16 Sep 2010, 7:23 am
ruveyn wrote:
cyberscan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Geez, being full of crap isn't just a symptom of NT'sm.
Obama is a natural born American citizen; the fact that he has any certificate maintaining his nationality at birth is more than enough to prove this. And pleas, at least have enough courage to admit what this is really about - you don't want to unseat Obama because of any profound love of the constitution, it's because you don't like his politics, or the color of his skin. Just grow a pair, and admit it.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Obama is a natural born American citizen; the fact that he has any certificate maintaining his nationality at birth is more than enough to prove this. And pleas, at least have enough courage to admit what this is really about - you don't want to unseat Obama because of any profound love of the constitution, it's because you don't like his politics, or the color of his skin. Just grow a pair, and admit it.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
I never said that he wasn't a natural born citizen. I always said that I believe that he is. I would like to see him impeached (liked I wanted both Clinton and Bush impeached) due to the fact that they are not loyal to the Constitution. I have no problem with the color of his skin,. I live in a multiracial home. My little sister is black. When people win an argument, the opposition likes to attack accusing the winner of racism. I could give a crap less about the color of his skin. This has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with his lack of loyalty to the Constitution and the direction he is taking the country.
Presidents are impeached for "high crimes and misdemeanors" which is a political category of acts defined by the sitting House of Representatives and the Senate. What you consider disloyalty to the Constitution is an opinion and a sign of your disapproval.
ruveyn
I know what impeachment is., and I think this procedure should be applied to the current president. George Bush Sr. should also have been impeached. Clinton was up for impeachment, but his most severe crime were not brought up in the proceeding.
16 Sep 2010, 2:58 pm
16 Sep 2010, 3:30 pm
ADoyle wrote:
Last time I checked, Hawaii has been a state since 1950, so that would make him a natural born US citizen, especially as his mother was also a citizen of the US. Someone living in US territory like John McCain was, is also considered a natural born US citizen. Because McCain was white, nobody got on his case about where he was born.
Well, 1959, actually - but since Obama was born in 1961, it's all good.
And there was some question raised about McCain, as no law actually spells out what "natural-born citizen" means for those born outside the United States (McCain's parents were both US citizens, but he was apparently born outside the Panama Canal Zone itself, on Panamanian turf - his parents were hurrying to try to get to the military hospital in the Zone, but young John was too impatient). Generally, we let that sort of thing slide - if one of your parents is a citizen, and you were raised as a citizen, that's close enough for jazz.
16 Sep 2010, 3:56 pm
cyberscan
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16 Sep 2010, 4:00 pm
DeaconBlues wrote:
ADoyle wrote:
Last time I checked, Hawaii has been a state since 1950, so that would make him a natural born US citizen, especially as his mother was also a citizen of the US. Someone living in US territory like John McCain was, is also considered a natural born US citizen. Because McCain was white, nobody got on his case about where he was born.
Well, 1959, actually - but since Obama was born in 1961, it's all good.
And there was some question raised about McCain, as no law actually spells out what "natural-born citizen" means for those born outside the United States (McCain's parents were both US citizens, but he was apparently born outside the Panama Canal Zone itself, on Panamanian turf - his parents were hurrying to try to get to the military hospital in the Zone, but young John was too impatient). Generally, we let that sort of thing slide - if one of your parents is a citizen, and you were raised as a citizen, that's close enough for jazz.
I didn't vote for him either. He is no friend of the Constitution.
16 Sep 2010, 5:09 pm
DenvrDave
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16 Sep 2010, 5:51 pm
I think this was the clearest statement of the issue so far:
visagrunt wrote:
It matters not one iota whether or not these are two different documents.
The question of qualification for the office of President is a legal question, which must be resolved by the prevailing rules of evidence and principles of interpretation.
Officials in the State of Hawaii have stated affirmatively and categorically that they are in possession of the original certificate. For all purposes of Hawaii law, the certification document produced is full and affirmative proof of its contents, and all Hawaii Courts are obliged to take judicial notice of it.
Hawaii has confirmed the authenticity of the record. Since all states and the United States are required to extend full faith and credit to the records of the State of Hawaii, the Courts of all States and of the United States are obliged, by reason of Article IV, Section 1 of the Constitution, to accept the record as authoritative evidence of its contents.
For all purposes in law, including the application of the "natural born citizen" qualification, Obama was born within the territory of the United States, and by operation of the 14th Amendment is a natural born citizen.
The production of a "certificate" as opposed to a "certification" is a complete red herring. There is no superior probative value in a hospital document (which, in fact, is an inferior document, since it carries no mandatory legal recognition).
The question of qualification for the office of President is a legal question, which must be resolved by the prevailing rules of evidence and principles of interpretation.
Officials in the State of Hawaii have stated affirmatively and categorically that they are in possession of the original certificate. For all purposes of Hawaii law, the certification document produced is full and affirmative proof of its contents, and all Hawaii Courts are obliged to take judicial notice of it.
Hawaii has confirmed the authenticity of the record. Since all states and the United States are required to extend full faith and credit to the records of the State of Hawaii, the Courts of all States and of the United States are obliged, by reason of Article IV, Section 1 of the Constitution, to accept the record as authoritative evidence of its contents.
For all purposes in law, including the application of the "natural born citizen" qualification, Obama was born within the territory of the United States, and by operation of the 14th Amendment is a natural born citizen.
The production of a "certificate" as opposed to a "certification" is a complete red herring. There is no superior probative value in a hospital document (which, in fact, is an inferior document, since it carries no mandatory legal recognition).
I agree with this:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Geez, being full of crap isn't just a symptom of NT'sm.
Obama is a natural born American citizen; the fact that he has any certificate maintaining his nationality at birth is more than enough to prove this. And pleas, at least have enough courage to admit what this is really about - you don't want to unseat Obama because of any profound love of the constitution, it's because you don't like his politics, or the color of his skin. Just grow a pair, and admit it.
Obama is a natural born American citizen; the fact that he has any certificate maintaining his nationality at birth is more than enough to prove this. And pleas, at least have enough courage to admit what this is really about - you don't want to unseat Obama because of any profound love of the constitution, it's because you don't like his politics, or the color of his skin. Just grow a pair, and admit it.
If you don't like the guy, that's fine. But the "birth certificate argument" is beside the point and a major distraction.
16 Sep 2010, 6:02 pm
16 Sep 2010, 6:30 pm
ruveyn wrote:
ikorack wrote:
Obama simply supplying a copy of his birth certificate would solve this issue, really this should already be required considering that its illegal for someone not born a U.S. citizen to be president.
He was born in Hawaii to an American mother. That suffices. She did not even have to be married. Being a bastard is not disqualification for being president.
ruveyn
Judging by the average Presidents I've known during my lifetime, being a bastard seems to be a qualification. Nixon, for instance. (Or did you mean "born to an unmarried mother"?)
