White House tried to pressure 4 star general to lie to congr

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Jeffrey228
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19 Sep 2011, 8:10 pm

Well here is the worse part of this, apparently from another thread concerning Conservitive and Tea Party Republicans and their dislike for specific things, but untested Vaccines that cause Autism, my only thoughts to this seems like the 2 types of Republicans seem to want this harsh Vaccine, but also the likely hood of Castration and Nuturing of Male boys and men up to age 50 if they have Autism, I think it seems like they are more racist in multiple groups than even before,

And also given if Perry wins, most states won't get away from this unless it is back in the 1800s when Union and Confederates were still in battle, but also a looming Great Depression could result in all out Civil War, but also the likely hood the UN might just use their trump card and some of our remaining states not part of "Perry's Game" will likely be joined by other countries, Mexico and Canada not out of the question, but also the Asian Nations too,

Seeing the nature of Rick Perry is of the following,

Anti-Economic Growth,
Be similar to North Korea,
Pro-Christan(No Offense)
Pro-War,
Against both Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Culture(hates other nations(mostly Asian and Middle Eastern)),
And Pro-Vaccine probably for HPB, Autism and Aspergers(or face a Mental Aslyum),

These are things that might make others here think I am paranoid, but since we are in the verge of a Great Dpression 2 and Republicans are becomming much like North Korea and the USSR, I figure this is not going to be a good 2012 through 2014 given the matters of this.



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19 Sep 2011, 10:25 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Mack27 wrote:
Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury not for getting a blowjob. Granted, if he didn't get the blowjob he wouldn't have lied about it under oath, but saying he was impeached for the blowjob is like saying a drunk driver was arrested for drinking instead of for driving drunk.

The general's chain of command doesn't go through white house staffers, so unless he was receiving pressure directly from the president he can thumb his nose at "whitehouse pressure" all day long and still be perfectly within his duties and his oath. By the way, his oath to defend the US constitution (which the President also takes) supersedes the President's authority to order him to do anything. If the president told the general to nuke congress the general would be honor-bound to not obey such an unlawful order.


Anyone who "thumbs his nose" at his commander-in-chief's officials is walking a very fine line. My chain of command does not include the Minister's policy advisors--but if I get an instruction from one of them, then I treat it as if it comes from the Minister, unless there is good reason not to so so. I suggest that prudence dictates that you ask the question, "does this come from the top?" If you are told, "yes," then you respond, "how high?" If the answer is, "no," then the correct response is to ask for it to be confirmed from the top.

As for the oath to defend the US Constitution, I see nothing in the White House's messaging that contradicts that oath. Certainly an illegal order is no order at all. But this is not, so far as I can see, within that class.


Let's see here a piece of equipment that jams our military's GPS while they are in the United States, it also jams civilian GPS, can anyone else not see how this can compromise national security.

The General was testifying UNDER OATH as to his recommendations based on the results of the tests, what you are saying is he should have followed the White House's stance and lie rather than give his expert opinion before congress.

Also the head of the company is an Obama donor, and Obama had stock in that company.

@ Jeffrey228 and Kraichgauer

You two have really gone off the deep end.



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19 Sep 2011, 10:42 pm

Jeffrey228 wrote:
Well here is the worse part of this, apparently from another thread concerning Conservitive and Tea Party Republicans and their dislike for specific things, but untested Vaccines that cause Autism, my only thoughts to this seems like the 2 types of Republicans seem to want this harsh Vaccine, but also the likely hood of Castration and Nuturing of Male boys and men up to age 50 if they have Autism, I think it seems like they are more racist in multiple groups than even before,

And also given if Perry wins, most states won't get away from this unless it is back in the 1800s when Union and Confederates were still in battle, but also a looming Great Depression could result in all out Civil War, but also the likely hood the UN might just use their trump card and some of our remaining states not part of "Perry's Game" will likely be joined by other countries, Mexico and Canada not out of the question, but also the Asian Nations too,

Seeing the nature of Rick Perry is of the following,

Anti-Economic Growth,
Be similar to North Korea,
Pro-Christan(No Offense)
Pro-War,
Against both Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Culture(hates other nations(mostly Asian and Middle Eastern)),
And Pro-Vaccine probably for HPB, Autism and Aspergers(or face a Mental Aslyum),

These are things that might make others here think I am paranoid, but since we are in the verge of a Great Dpression 2 and Republicans are becomming much like North Korea and the USSR, I figure this is not going to be a good 2012 through 2014 given the matters of this.

How old are you and where are you getting your information?


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jojobean
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19 Sep 2011, 10:49 pm

I do agree though that jamming the GPS of armed forces would rather stupid and danerous....but whatever happened to maps.
I read that GPS's has been causing people to drive into cornfields and other more hazardly places. 1 person drove off a clift because his gps told him turn right, when right was the clift.

I think GPS makes us more vunerable anyway and ppl should not be so dependant on computers.

However, neverless I see your point that it could jeperdise national security due to a conflect of interest, but it still does not make what the POS did illegal. In war, the president has powers that a peacetime POS does not have, which is why we are always at war.
However, the cause that this may endanger our troops and civilians may override the POS IF the general resigns and addresses the issue as a civilian. But as the general, he has to obey the chain of command regardless of the law because military law is different than civilian law, expecially durring wartime.


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Jeffrey228
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19 Sep 2011, 11:33 pm

John_Browning and Inuyasha, ever thought that maybe there is a word most hate hearing called "Paranoia"?

Well apparently most Aspies have this, this is why I have such paranoid responces and such, because in the end, this word seems not be very well liked also in terms of talking about it.



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19 Sep 2011, 11:43 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Mack27 wrote:
Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury not for getting a blowjob. Granted, if he didn't get the blowjob he wouldn't have lied about it under oath, but saying he was impeached for the blowjob is like saying a drunk driver was arrested for drinking instead of for driving drunk.

The general's chain of command doesn't go through white house staffers, so unless he was receiving pressure directly from the president he can thumb his nose at "whitehouse pressure" all day long and still be perfectly within his duties and his oath. By the way, his oath to defend the US constitution (which the President also takes) supersedes the President's authority to order him to do anything. If the president told the general to nuke congress the general would be honor-bound to not obey such an unlawful order.


Anyone who "thumbs his nose" at his commander-in-chief's officials is walking a very fine line. My chain of command does not include the Minister's policy advisors--but if I get an instruction from one of them, then I treat it as if it comes from the Minister, unless there is good reason not to so so. I suggest that prudence dictates that you ask the question, "does this come from the top?" If you are told, "yes," then you respond, "how high?" If the answer is, "no," then the correct response is to ask for it to be confirmed from the top.

As for the oath to defend the US Constitution, I see nothing in the White House's messaging that contradicts that oath. Certainly an illegal order is no order at all. But this is not, so far as I can see, within that class.


Let's see here a piece of equipment that jams our military's GPS while they are in the United States, it also jams civilian GPS, can anyone else not see how this can compromise national security.

The General was testifying UNDER OATH as to his recommendations based on the results of the tests, what you are saying is he should have followed the White House's stance and lie rather than give his expert opinion before congress.

Also the head of the company is an Obama donor, and Obama had stock in that company.

@ Jeffrey228 and Kraichgauer

You two have really gone off the deep end.


Actually, if you read up on the New Apostolic Reformation, which Perry seems to be buddy-buddy with, you'd be concerned, too. If anything, it's Perry's new friends who have gone off the deep end with their fear of the coming Antichrist (which they absolutely believe in), or that they have to take control of government, entertainment, business, and the family in order to usher in Christ's return. :lol: :P

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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19 Sep 2011, 11:53 pm

Jeffrey228 wrote:
Well here is the worse part of this, apparently from another thread concerning Conservitive and Tea Party Republicans and their dislike for specific things, but untested Vaccines that cause Autism, my only thoughts to this seems like the 2 types of Republicans seem to want this harsh Vaccine, but also the likely hood of Castration and Nuturing of Male boys and men up to age 50 if they have Autism, I think it seems like they are more racist in multiple groups than even before,

And also given if Perry wins, most states won't get away from this unless it is back in the 1800s when Union and Confederates were still in battle, but also a looming Great Depression could result in all out Civil War, but also the likely hood the UN might just use their trump card and some of our remaining states not part of "Perry's Game" will likely be joined by other countries, Mexico and Canada not out of the question, but also the Asian Nations too,

Seeing the nature of Rick Perry is of the following,

Anti-Economic Growth,
Be similar to North Korea,
Pro-Christan(No Offense)
Pro-War,
Against both Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Culture(hates other nations(mostly Asian and Middle Eastern)),
And Pro-Vaccine probably for HPB, Autism and Aspergers(or face a Mental Aslyum),

These are things that might make others here think I am paranoid, but since we are in the verge of a Great Dpression 2 and Republicans are becomming much like North Korea and the USSR, I figure this is not going to be a good 2012 through 2014 given the matters of this.


Just to let you know - while I appreciate your anti-Perry passion, I think you're mistaken about HPV vaccine, which Bachmann had made the outrageous claim about causing mental retardation in girls with no previous history of retardation. If anything, Perry, I believe, had been right to vaccinate teen girls to prevent cervical cancer. He's only now changing his tune about it because he wants to appeal to the evangelicals who oppose the vaccination because they believe it'll give girls license to be promiscuous - which is Bachmann's real opposition.
I would also like to add, while the causes of autism are still a mystery, I believe there has been enough evidence to discredit that doctor who claimed that childhood vaccines cause autism. My late father, who had been born in 1921, in rural eastern Washington - a time and place where the old west was barely over - had never been been vaccinated for anything - and yet I am absolutely certain he, too, was an Aspie.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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20 Sep 2011, 12:15 am

jojobean wrote:
I do agree though that jamming the GPS of armed forces would rather stupid and danerous....but whatever happened to maps.
I read that GPS's has been causing people to drive into cornfields and other more hazardly places. 1 person drove off a clift because his gps told him turn right, when right was the clift.

I think GPS makes us more vunerable anyway and ppl should not be so dependant on computers.

However, neverless I see your point that it could jeperdise national security due to a conflect of interest, but it still does not make what the POS did illegal. In war, the president has powers that a peacetime POS does not have, which is why we are always at war.
However, the cause that this may endanger our troops and civilians may override the POS IF the general resigns and addresses the issue as a civilian. But as the general, he has to obey the chain of command regardless of the law because military law is different than civilian law, expecially durring wartime.


Problem with your argument of this being okay is the fact that the General was testifying to congress as to his recommendations, not Obama's staff, not Obama, the General's own expertise given the results of the tests.



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20 Sep 2011, 11:48 am

And nothing in the White House's insertions changed those findings or those recommendations. It served to put those findings and recommendations into context.

It is not a lie to say, "I recommend against this--but it is the administration's policy to create new broadband for business."

It is not a lie to say, "Our findings demonstrate that the system interfered with GPS--but we are going to continue to too look at means by which that interference can be mitigated."


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20 Sep 2011, 6:32 pm

visagrunt wrote:
And nothing in the White House's insertions changed those findings or those recommendations. It served to put those findings and recommendations into context.

It is not a lie to say, "I recommend against this--but it is the administration's policy to create new broadband for business."

It is not a lie to say, "Our findings demonstrate that the system interfered with GPS--but we are going to continue to too look at means by which that interference can be mitigated."


Actually, the administration was trying to get him to say he supported the approval of the LightSquared product, but the General was essentially saying LightSquared's hardware should not be approved period.

"Aviation receivers operating as far as 7.5 miles from LightSquared transmitters completely lost GPS and were degraded out to distances of more than 16.5 miles," Shelton said. "High precision GPS receivers such as those used for surveying and geological study requiring precise measurements were adversely affected out to 213 miles and totally lost GPS out to 4.8 miles."

Shelton noted that the State of New Mexico believes the LightSquared network could "jeopardize 911 and public safety."

Shelton gave his damning testimony despite admitting that he was pressured to change his testimony in a way that would favor LightSquared, congressional sources told Fox News. Following those accusations, the LightSquared technology debate has become mired in politics -- one fact both sides can agree upon.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/09/ ... z1YXNOzkzc



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20 Sep 2011, 6:45 pm

Tell me more about light-squared? what kind of technology is it that disrupts GPS signal?


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20 Sep 2011, 7:16 pm

jojobean wrote:
Tell me more about light-squared? what kind of technology is it that disrupts GPS signal?


Their wireless broadband internet transmitters/receivers are what disrupts the GPS signal, they are a wireless internet company.



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21 Sep 2011, 8:21 am

nothing shall stop the internet....NOTHING :twisted: .....jk :wink:


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21 Sep 2011, 11:55 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Actually, the administration was trying to get him to say he supported the approval of the LightSquared product, but the General was essentially saying LightSquared's hardware should not be approved period.

"Aviation receivers operating as far as 7.5 miles from LightSquared transmitters completely lost GPS and were degraded out to distances of more than 16.5 miles," Shelton said. "High precision GPS receivers such as those used for surveying and geological study requiring precise measurements were adversely affected out to 213 miles and totally lost GPS out to 4.8 miles."

Shelton noted that the State of New Mexico believes the LightSquared network could "jeopardize 911 and public safety."

Shelton gave his damning testimony despite admitting that he was pressured to change his testimony in a way that would favor LightSquared, congressional sources told Fox News. Following those accusations, the LightSquared technology debate has become mired in politics -- one fact both sides can agree upon.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/09/ ... z1YXNOzkzc


Look again at the original story:

Quote:
the White House asked the general to alter the testimony to add two points: that the general supported the White House policy to add more broadband for commercial use; and that the Pentagon would try to resolve the questions around LightSquared with testing in just 90 days.


Nowhere does it appear that, "the administration was trying to get him to say he supported the approval of the LightSquared product."

A little advice: if you are going to lie, don't do so in a way that I can disprove your lie from a link within your own post. It looks amateur. [/patronising]


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21 Sep 2011, 3:14 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Actually, the administration was trying to get him to say he supported the approval of the LightSquared product, but the General was essentially saying LightSquared's hardware should not be approved period.

"Aviation receivers operating as far as 7.5 miles from LightSquared transmitters completely lost GPS and were degraded out to distances of more than 16.5 miles," Shelton said. "High precision GPS receivers such as those used for surveying and geological study requiring precise measurements were adversely affected out to 213 miles and totally lost GPS out to 4.8 miles."

Shelton noted that the State of New Mexico believes the LightSquared network could "jeopardize 911 and public safety."

Shelton gave his damning testimony despite admitting that he was pressured to change his testimony in a way that would favor LightSquared, congressional sources told Fox News. Following those accusations, the LightSquared technology debate has become mired in politics -- one fact both sides can agree upon.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/09/ ... z1YXNOzkzc


Look again at the original story:

Quote:
the White House asked the general to alter the testimony to add two points: that the general supported the White House policy to add more broadband for commercial use; and that the Pentagon would try to resolve the questions around LightSquared with testing in just 90 days.


Nowhere does it appear that, "the administration was trying to get him to say he supported the approval of the LightSquared product."

A little advice: if you are going to lie, don't do so in a way that I can disprove your lie from a link within your own post. It looks amateur. [/patronising]


Cute, except you apparently do not have a clue what Subornation of perjury means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subornation_of_perjury

The general was testifying under oath, the White House was trying to get the general to include things which were blatently false.

1. The General did not support the White House policy.

2. The General knew damn well that there was no way in hell the Pentagon could resolve the issues in just 90 days.

If you're going to accuse me of lieing, you really shouldn't make it this easy for me to turn tables on you and prove you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Whoever procures another to commit any perjury is guilty of subornation of perjury, and shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1622.html



bergie
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21 Sep 2011, 7:06 pm

Does it even matter to you that the General and his staff deny this ever happened?