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ruveyn
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07 Oct 2011, 10:49 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

I don't think many people want to live in Michigan these days. I'd put the blame for the collapse of industry there on the shoulders of the business owners who deserted the people who made them great.
And I think we both know it's quite impossible to move to another state when you're earning crap.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Not true. People with only the clothes on the backs went from Oklahoma (dust bowl country) to California during the Great Depression. Anyone who wants to move will find a way.

And don't blame the automakers. The Japanese had more to do with the demise of Michigan than American capitalists.

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
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07 Oct 2011, 11:11 am

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

I don't think many people want to live in Michigan these days. I'd put the blame for the collapse of industry there on the shoulders of the business owners who deserted the people who made them great.
And I think we both know it's quite impossible to move to another state when you're earning crap.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Not true. People with only the clothes on the backs went from Oklahoma (dust bowl country) to California during the Great Depression. Anyone who wants to move will find a way.

And don't blame the automakers. The Japanese had more to do with the demise of Michigan than American capitalists.

ruveyn


I have to ask if a mass migration like the Oakies and Arkies had done would be possible today.
And while I do agree that the Japanese had been guilty of unfair business practices, it can't be denied that the auto makers in this country were cutting corners and making an inferior product in order to save money. The result was the guys who built the cars ended up paying for the greed of their employers.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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07 Oct 2011, 11:33 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
The result was the guys who built the cars ended up paying for the greed of their employers.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


They were members of the UAW. I do not feel a bit sorry for them. Those who sow the wind, will reap the whirlwind.

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
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07 Oct 2011, 12:04 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The result was the guys who built the cars ended up paying for the greed of their employers.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


They were members of the UAW. I do not feel a bit sorry for them. Those who sow the wind, will reap the whirlwind.

ruveyn


You have to explain that to me.
And even if the UAW were at all responsible for what happened, I would think it would be hard hearted to punish their families.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



visagrunt
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07 Oct 2011, 12:06 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
So telling an American Company that they can't have a factory in the State of South Carolina, because that state is a right to work state, where you don't have to join a union if you don't want to, is okay in your mind?


They are free to set up their factory anywhere they like.

And the government is free not to buy their products on that basis.


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ruveyn
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07 Oct 2011, 12:50 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

You have to explain that to me.
And even if the UAW were at all responsible for what happened, I would think it would be hard hearted to punish their families.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The heads of household should have thought of that.

If the UAW weren't so greedy, GM and Chrysler might have survived even the Japanese.

Hint: Reality does not take prisoners.

ruveyn



number5
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07 Oct 2011, 1:31 pm

Raptor wrote:
number5 wrote:
Quote:
He has succumbed to to special interest groups and his campaign financiers.


It's like this; right or wrong you owe your campain financers.
They did not help just out of kindness.


Which is precisely the problem. Elections are bought and sold - in all 3 branches (we elect judges too now). Our representatives do not represent the voters. They represent those who fill their pockets. Our tiny gestures like $5 dollar donations don't amount to squat considering that corporations are free to donate unlimited funds, often anonymously. The 99% are essentially powerless in this set-up. There is no question about whether it's wrong or not because clearly - it is wrong (from a voter's perspective).



Kraichgauer
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07 Oct 2011, 1:37 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

You have to explain that to me.
And even if the UAW were at all responsible for what happened, I would think it would be hard hearted to punish their families.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The heads of household should have thought of that.

If the UAW weren't so greedy, GM and Chrysler might have survived even the Japanese.

Hint: Reality does not take prisoners.

ruveyn


But what you may see as greed the UAW members may simply have seen as negotiating for a higher standard of living.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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07 Oct 2011, 1:47 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

You have to explain that to me.
And even if the UAW were at all responsible for what happened, I would think it would be hard hearted to punish their families.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The heads of household should have thought of that.

If the UAW weren't so greedy, GM and Chrysler might have survived even the Japanese.

Hint: Reality does not take prisoners.

ruveyn


Okay that's it!
You ARE a closet conservative. :twisted:



Gedrene
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07 Oct 2011, 2:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

You have to explain that to me.
And even if the UAW were at all responsible for what happened, I would think it would be hard hearted to punish their families.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The heads of household should have thought of that.

If the UAW weren't so greedy, GM and Chrysler might have survived even the Japanese.

Hint: Reality does not take prisoners.

ruveyn

No, not what happened. If GM and Chrysler were actually run by half-competent businessmen who actually made cars that people would buy then maybe they wouldn't have gone under. Most Japanese and European workers get paid more than American workers. So saying that it's unionized labour's fault is a complete non-argument.

Hint: Opinions and bad explanations are not reality.



ruveyn
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07 Oct 2011, 3:35 pm

Raptor wrote:

Okay that's it!
You ARE a closet conservative. :twisted:


Really. What closet. I don't vote for conservatives. That last one I voted for was Barry Goldwater in 1964.

And I surely do not vote for Democrat Liberal Pinko Stinko Commie Lovers either.

ruveyn



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07 Oct 2011, 5:03 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Raptor wrote:

Okay that's it!
You ARE a closet conservative. :twisted:


Really. What closet. I don't vote for conservatives. That last one I voted for was Barry Goldwater in 1964.

And I surely do not vote for Democrat Liberal Pinko Stinko Commie Lovers either.

ruveyn


1964?? Only rocks are old enough to have voted that long ago.
I guess that would be the election that Lyndon B won.
I've heard he's the reason the south went republican.



Inuyasha
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07 Oct 2011, 7:02 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
So telling an American Company that they can't have a factory in the State of South Carolina, because that state is a right to work state, where you don't have to join a union if you don't want to, is okay in your mind?


They are free to set up their factory anywhere they like.

And the government is free not to buy their products on that basis.


Well then maybe you should tell that to the NLRB that told Boeing that they couldn't have a factory in South Carolina.



Kraichgauer
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07 Oct 2011, 9:54 pm

Raptor wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Raptor wrote:

Okay that's it!
You ARE a closet conservative. :twisted:


Really. What closet. I don't vote for conservatives. That last one I voted for was Barry Goldwater in 1964.

And I surely do not vote for Democrat Liberal Pinko Stinko Commie Lovers either.

ruveyn


1964?? Only rocks are old enough to have voted that long ago.
I guess that would be the election that Lyndon B won.
I've heard he's the reason the south went republican.



Yeah, Johnson signing in the Civil Rights Act. That may not be something that white southerners today would want to brag about.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer