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Jerusalem Post: US to deploy to Israel for massive drill

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John_Browning
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05 Jan 2012, 10:02 pm

snapcap wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
snapcap wrote:
Quote:
Iran remains ready to engage in negotiations with world powers concerned about its nuclear program, its Foreign Ministry spokesman said on Wednesday.

"We have always announced that we are ready for positive and useful negotiations but, as we have mentioned repeatedly, the condition for those talks to be successful is that we enter those negotiations in a stance of equality and respect for nations' rights," Ramin Mehmanparast was quoted as saying by the website of Iran's Arabic language al-Alam television.

Iran is stalling to get their first nuclear test done. They aren't bringing any serious offers to the table that would help resolve the situation.


Well, it's hardly not negotiating at all.

You sound like you have the same definition of negotiating as the US and Israel have, which is complete submission to their demands.

That is why there is no negotiations.

It's not so much about submitting to the west's demands as it is they are not bringing any proposals that would help work towards peace. They are not trying to negotiate in good faith, and their cooperation with international inspectors, the first thing they could do to show good faith, has been inconsistent at best.


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snapcap
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05 Jan 2012, 10:14 pm

John_Browning wrote:
snapcap wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
snapcap wrote:
Quote:
Iran remains ready to engage in negotiations with world powers concerned about its nuclear program, its Foreign Ministry spokesman said on Wednesday.

"We have always announced that we are ready for positive and useful negotiations but, as we have mentioned repeatedly, the condition for those talks to be successful is that we enter those negotiations in a stance of equality and respect for nations' rights," Ramin Mehmanparast was quoted as saying by the website of Iran's Arabic language al-Alam television.

Iran is stalling to get their first nuclear test done. They aren't bringing any serious offers to the table that would help resolve the situation.


Well, it's hardly not negotiating at all.

You sound like you have the same definition of negotiating as the US and Israel have, which is complete submission to their demands.

That is why there is no negotiations.

It's not so much about submitting to the west's demands as it is they are not bringing any proposals that would help work towards peace. They are not trying to negotiate in good faith, and their cooperation with international inspectors, the first thing they could do to show good faith, has been inconsistent at best.


I don't think they want peace, I think they want to wipe Iran off the map.


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androbot2084
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05 Jan 2012, 10:21 pm

What Iran wants is to assert its position as world's leader in nuclear military power. However this can be done peaceably and dramatically with a manned nuclear powered rocket mission to Mars rather than an all out nuclear war with Israel.



John_Browning
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06 Jan 2012, 9:27 pm

snapcap wrote:
I don't think they want peace, I think they want to wipe Iran off the map.

If that's the case, that's best done before they have a bomb and while Russia's government is being shuffled around. Realistically, one of these days they will likely blast the crap out of specific political and military targets without engaging the bulk of their army or population.


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snapcap
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06 Jan 2012, 9:46 pm

John_Browning wrote:
snapcap wrote:
I don't think they want peace, I think they want to wipe Iran off the map.

If that's the case, that's best done before they have a bomb and while Russia's government is being shuffled around. Realistically, one of these days they will likely blast the crap out of specific political and military targets without engaging the bulk of their army or population.


I can't help but think that was what the purpose of the formation of the modern day Israel was, to destroy the ME.


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androbot2084
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06 Jan 2012, 10:39 pm

get them before they get us mentality.



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06 Jan 2012, 11:34 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
get them before they get us mentality.


Which may get us all killed.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



androbot2084
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07 Jan 2012, 1:11 am

What the religious right does not understand is that soldiers that live by the sword die by the sword.



John_Browning
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07 Jan 2012, 4:03 am

snapcap wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
snapcap wrote:
I don't think they want peace, I think they want to wipe Iran off the map.

If that's the case, that's best done before they have a bomb and while Russia's government is being shuffled around. Realistically, one of these days they will likely blast the crap out of specific political and military targets without engaging the bulk of their army or population.


I can't help but think that was what the purpose of the formation of the modern day Israel was, to destroy the ME.

At that time most of the region was the property of the major colonial powers, and in most places the tension was low and manageable by the local military garrisons. The Arab world didn't mind it much until land was zoned for Jewish refugees. From the start, Israel had to buy up all the Nazi surplus hardware they could get to hold off the surrounding Arabs. The Israelis have never gone to war unprovoked, and that includes 1967 since it was common knowledge that the Arabs were about to attack. Israel also puts up with a lot of suicide bombers and gunmen, mortars, and rockets--each incident being a desperate act of war--for a lot longer than the US would before they get into west bank and border skirmishes.

The Jews mindset is that they want a period in their history where they aren't being persecuted. They haven't had that much, even over a timespan of 4000 years. That's hard to achieve when a country's leaders believe they have a sacred duty to exterminate you even if they have to cross 2 [currently] neutral countries and violate their airspace to do it! Even the other Arab countries are unhappy with Iran.


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Sweetleaf
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07 Jan 2012, 10:40 am

John_Browning wrote:
snapcap wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
snapcap wrote:
Quote:
Iran remains ready to engage in negotiations with world powers concerned about its nuclear program, its Foreign Ministry spokesman said on Wednesday.

"We have always announced that we are ready for positive and useful negotiations but, as we have mentioned repeatedly, the condition for those talks to be successful is that we enter those negotiations in a stance of equality and respect for nations' rights," Ramin Mehmanparast was quoted as saying by the website of Iran's Arabic language al-Alam television.

Iran is stalling to get their first nuclear test done. They aren't bringing any serious offers to the table that would help resolve the situation.


Well, it's hardly not negotiating at all.

You sound like you have the same definition of negotiating as the US and Israel have, which is complete submission to their demands.

That is why there is no negotiations.

It's not so much about submitting to the west's demands as it is they are not bringing any proposals that would help work towards peace. They are not trying to negotiate in good faith, and their cooperation with international inspectors, the first thing they could do to show good faith, has been inconsistent at best.


Well not that I particularly like Iran but as far as I can tell they have not attacked anyone, so I don't really understand that what proposals are they supposed to come up with to work towards peace. Maybe the U.S just should quit starting freaking wars, that might be a good way to work towards peace. Or maybe they should just blow up the world that will solve it right.

and I have to wonder what resource in Iran is it we're after.....there's gotta be something to make it worthwhile.


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07 Jan 2012, 10:42 am

John_Browning wrote:
snapcap wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
snapcap wrote:
I don't think they want peace, I think they want to wipe Iran off the map.

If that's the case, that's best done before they have a bomb and while Russia's government is being shuffled around. Realistically, one of these days they will likely blast the crap out of specific political and military targets without engaging the bulk of their army or population.


I can't help but think that was what the purpose of the formation of the modern day Israel was, to destroy the ME.

At that time most of the region was the property of the major colonial powers, and in most places the tension was low and manageable by the local military garrisons. The Arab world didn't mind it much until land was zoned for Jewish refugees. From the start, Israel had to buy up all the Nazi surplus hardware they could get to hold off the surrounding Arabs. The Israelis have never gone to war unprovoked, and that includes 1967 since it was common knowledge that the Arabs were about to attack. Israel also puts up with a lot of suicide bombers and gunmen, mortars, and rockets--each incident being a desperate act of war--for a lot longer than the US would before they get into west bank and border skirmishes.

The Jews mindset is that they want a period in their history where they aren't being persecuted. They haven't had that much, even over a timespan of 4000 years. That's hard to achieve when a country's leaders believe they have a sacred duty to exterminate you even if they have to cross 2 [currently] neutral countries and violate their airspace to do it! Even the other Arab countries are unhappy with Iran.


So their solution is to persecute the Palestinians..


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androbot2084
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07 Jan 2012, 11:40 am

The United States started a war with Iraq and the result was that not one nuclear weapon in the middle east was ever dismantled but thousands of our soldiers ended up dead for nothing. Since the religious right republicans think that war is the solution to all of the worlds problems they want to start a war with Iran which may involve the use of nuclear bunker busters against Iran.

And yet the religious right accuses pacifist leaders of doing nothing and thus allowing Iran to get a hold of an atomic bomb so they can nuke Israel.

I have never said that nothing should be done but we need to look at some out of the box solutions rather than using gunboat diplomacy which results in another war.



snapcap
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07 Jan 2012, 12:56 pm

John_Browning wrote:



The Jews mindset is that they want a period in their history where they aren't being persecuted. They haven't had that much, even over a timespan of 4000 years. That's hard to achieve when a country's leaders believe they have a sacred duty to exterminate you even if they have to cross 2 [currently] neutral countries and violate their airspace to do it! Even the other Arab countries are unhappy with Iran.


They want to achieve this by any cost.


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androbot2084
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07 Jan 2012, 1:42 pm

If Israels security is dependent on nuclear weapons the cost of its security will be too great.



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07 Jan 2012, 4:08 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

So their solution is to persecute the Palestinians..


Especially the Palestinians who launch rockets or strap on suicide bombs.

ruveyn



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07 Jan 2012, 4:19 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

So their solution is to persecute the Palestinians..


Especially the Palestinians who launch rockets or strap on suicide bombs.

ruveyn


Well its not to hard to look up the history and trace the current violence back to it. Its not like the Palestinians where the ones setting up a nation in the midst of land people already lived on. That does not justify rocket launching or suicide bombing, and there is not a lot to justify some of what Israel does to Palestine.


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