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questioning the whole filibuster in the U.S. Senate

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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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18 Apr 2013, 2:25 pm

Quote:
Legislative Leaders Say Bipartisan Agreement [in Connecticut] Could Yield Nation's Strongest Gun-Control Bill

The Hartford Courant, JON LENDER and JENNY WILSON
April 1, 2013

http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc ... 1094.story

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"We learned, the way that no other parents should learn, that the most dangerous, dangerous part of an assault weapon is the magazine," Nicole Hockley, whose son Dylan, 6, was killed Dec. 14, said at a press conference with other parents at the Capitol Monday morning.

"The horrible, brutal truth is that 154 bullets were fired in four minutes, killing our children, our daughters, our wives. The shooter carried 10, 30-round large-capacity magazines," Hockley said. "We have learned that in the time it took him to reload in one of the classrooms, 11 children were able to escape. We ask ourselves every day — every minute — if those magazines had held 10 rounds, forcing the shooter to reload at least six more times, would our children be alive today?"
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As someone who is 50 years old, I grew up occasionally hearing that a machine gun is illegal and comfortable and familiar with that idea. Well, it seems to me that these kind of assault weapons are perilous close to machine guns. And focusing on the size of the magazine does a pretty good job drawing a distinction between a defensive civilian-type weapon and a military style assault weapon.

And I also want to close the gun show loophole. Some pro-gun folks say it's not really a loophole. Are you sure about that? Because it sure seems like a big enough loophole to drive a truck through.



Jacoby
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18 Apr 2013, 2:29 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
Quote:
Legislative Leaders Say Bipartisan Agreement [in Connecticut] Could Yield Nation's Strongest Gun-Control Bill

The Hartford Courant, JON LENDER and JENNY WILSON
April 1, 2013

http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc ... 1094.story

.
.
.
"We learned, the way that no other parents should learn, that the most dangerous, dangerous part of an assault weapon is the magazine," Nicole Hockley, whose son Dylan, 6, was killed Dec. 14, said at a press conference with other parents at the Capitol Monday morning.

"The horrible, brutal truth is that 154 bullets were fired in four minutes, killing our children, our daughters, our wives. The shooter carried 10, 30-round large-capacity magazines," Hockley said. "We have learned that in the time it took him to reload in one of the classrooms, 11 children were able to escape. We ask ourselves every day — every minute — if those magazines had held 10 rounds, forcing the shooter to reload at least six more times, would our children be alive today?"
.
.
.

As someone who is 50 years old, I grew up occasionally hearing that a machine gun is illegal and comfortable and familiar with that idea. Well, it seems to me that these kind of assault weapons are perilous close to machine guns. And focusing on the size of the magazine does a pretty good job drawing a distinction between a defensive civilian-type weapon and a military style assault weapon.

And I also want to close the gun show loophole. Some pro-gun folks say it's not really a loophole. Are you sure about that? Because it sure seems like a big enough loophole to drive a truck through.


No. A machine gun is a full automatic or select fire weapon, these "assault weapons" are semi automatic and has cosmetic features that make them look scary to people that know nothing about guns.

As for this "gun show loophole", what they really are attacking is private sales.



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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18 Apr 2013, 3:03 pm

The semi automatic weapons with big clips can still kick out a lot of rounds in a small amount of time. Like the above parent says, 154 rounds in four minutes.

And what I understand about gun shows, anyone can walk in off the street, no pinging a system to see if the person has a previous criminal background, no nothing.



eric76
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18 Apr 2013, 3:15 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
The semi automatic weapons with big clips can still kick out a lot of rounds in a small amount of time. Like the above parent says, 154 rounds in four minutes.


It doesn't take long to pull out a magazine and put in another. With practice, you would be able to do it very quickly. Restricting the size of the magazine wouldn't accomplish much in real terms.



Dox47
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19 Apr 2013, 12:27 am

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
And what I understand about gun shows, anyone can walk in off the street, no pinging a system to see if the person has a previous criminal background, no nothing.


Depends on the state, and never from a licensed dealer, they have to perform a background check no matter where the sale occurred. An easy rule of thumb to remember is that gun dealers always have to fill out paperwork and carry out background checks, but not individual sellers not involved in the business.
"Gun show loophole" is a political term, much like "assault weapon", that doesn't really have any connection to reality. A more accurate term would be "garage sale loophole", as what is 100% legal is for me to sell my guns at a garage sale or through an ad in the paper without having to get the government involved, but that doesn't sound sinister enough for the anti-gun people.

Also, read these:
http://reason.com/archives/2013/04/17/c ... und-checks
http://washingtonexaminer.com/gene-heal ... le/2527210


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19 Apr 2013, 10:51 am

With respect to the OP, the question was tied too closely to a particular example to be seperated.

I think the mistake on the filbuster is to allow "silent holds", which have been largely done away with. I'm also not so fond of allowing it for motions to begin debate.

As someone pointed out above, each chamber sets it's own rules, and Congress cannot enforce it's will on a future congress.

I'm going to put up a poll on this issue in PPR, because I'd like to see a thread where the discussion is not so closely tied to a recent example.


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