Men's Rights Group Claims Self-Defense Classes Are Sexist

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read that again, eccles. then pause and think before you reply and call it rubbish.

eccles,is correct,if women want to learn self defense,than join
a martial art school,where you spar or roll against men.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9xjs2fWJEs[/youtube]

maybe if you've just been forcibly raped by a man, you don't feel like heading down to your local gym to engage in violent activities with strange men!! ! DUH!!

maybe some woman want/need a safe place AWAY FROM MALES to practice how to defend themselves.

don't come on here and tell women who've survived sexual assault HOW THEY SHOULD COPE WITH THAT.

You're arguing sensitivity, he's arguing effectiveness; it's apples and oranges and neither of you is actually right or wrong since you're not actually engaging each other's arguments, just shouting past each other.

sparring and rolling,the male partner is not seriously trying to hurt
his partner.How can you learn to defend against men,if you
only do drills against women.In Bjj rolling,a small woman can
roll against a 6'2'' 200 pound man,so,what's more practical.
doing 1 step groin kick drill,or actual sparring or rolling against
an male partner.

also,it's not strange men,you roll or spar against,but fellow male(and
female)students(of martial school)

please try to understand that the effectiveness of the training is less important sometimes than the feeling of security to someone who has just been raped. if i had just been violently raped, it likely wouldn't make much of a difference to me if someone told me "don't do the silly all-female self-defense courses because they are less effective than other types of training that include males." i would be much more concerned about finding a safe space where i could increase my confidence in defending myself away from men. maybe that might change after some time and experience, and eventually i would be able to expand into co-ed training. survivors should have the choice of going to an all-female course if that would help them to feel safer.

if i join a gym or dojo that i didn't belong to before, then chances are most of the people there are going to be strangers to me.

actually, as a woman who has survived sexual assault, twice, both times at the hands of males, i think my input should be given more weight on this particular topic. billiscool may know more about martial arts, but we are talking about the mindsets of women who use all-female self-defense courses, and on this subject i think i am better informed.

sure,you can start out with a women only self defense class,but
to actual,learn how to defend against men,you should
join a martial art school,that spars or roll against male partners.

Last edited by billiscool on 30 Mar 2014, 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ok,miss artist,you can join whatever you want.
but for other females,if you want to learn how
to defend yourself,join a legit martial school,
where you actually spar or roll against male
students. forget women only self defense class.

Last edited by billiscool on 30 Mar 2014, 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That would matter if you two were arguing about the same thing, but you're not, so your greater experience is irrelevant. IF you were arguing about the mindset of sexual assault survivors or something similar, sure, you're the expert (sorry), but he's (obliviously) arguing about the effectiveness of one martial arts training regime vs another, which is a completely different thing than what you're talking about, and one which your experience gives you no particular insight into.

yes, i understand that's what he's talking about. but as i said, effectiveness is not necessarily what a woman who's taking a specifically all-female self-defence course is concerned about. if i weren't worried about feeling unsafe in a co-ed environment, then likely i would consider co-ed courses. but if i WERE concerned about feeling safe around guys, i would likely wish to have the option of joining an all-female course.

therefore, all-female self-defence courses SHOULD AND MUST be available for those who aren't ready to jump into co-ed environments just yet, no matter whether those all-female courses are "less effective" or not.

i generally try to avoid such terms, but i think you guys might want to consider looking up the phenomenon of "mansplaining".

i would also like to contend the legitimacy of the argument that a co-ed class could definitely teach me more effectively than an all-female class.

say i joined an all-female karate dojo (if there is such a thing): likely there are going to be some women there who are larger than me, stronger than me, and better trained than i am. is training with them somehow going to be "less effective" than training with men--some of which, even though they are men, might be smaller and weaker than me? because you do realise that all men are not universally bigger and stronger than all women, right? i mean, maybe the female karate students don't have testicles for me to be trained to aim for, but as humans they do have other weak spots that can be just as "effective" to target, do they not? (ie eyes, throat)

You should continue to avoid using such terms.

miss artist,female self defense class,don't even spar
or roll against female partners.They usually are a
one class thing,or a 6 week class course.they only
do drills.Drills are not bad,but you need to
actual spar or roll with a partner.Ideal with male partners.
if not,at least with female partners,over a period
of time. but eventually you should spar or roll with
male partners,at least sometimes.




[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dovqVLkSJVU[/youtube]

Last edited by billiscool on 30 Mar 2014, 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Universally stronger, no, but generally yes. More important might be mindset and familiarity in fighting men, as you're specifically talking about defense against sexual assault by men, and as you're no doubt aware that men and women possess many differences beyond the anatomical, it might be good to train against what you expect to face.

Let me give you a ridiculous analogy: I play online shooters, some of which give you the option to play against the computer, to fight 'bots'. Now fighting the bots is useful practice in some regards, they have unnaturally precise aim, they never lose track of where you are, they never don't notice you just threw a grenade at them, etc, but they're not the same as human players, they do stupid things no human would do, and playing against them can give you some bad habits that get you (digitally) killed when you go back to vs real people. See where I'm going with this?

Let me give you a more on point example; those testicles you mentioned aiming for. Many a women's self defense class has taught the groin shot as a reliable and effective technique, but that's fatally flawed and even dangerous, as a shot to the balls is painful, not debilitating, and anyone who fights women will be expecting you to try it. If I ever found myself in a physical confrontation with a woman, literally the very first thing I'd be looking for would be a kick in the junk, and I'm not a predatory person, just someone who thinks a bit, and if I can get there, so can someone who might habitually prey on women. Now in a women only class, you'd never get to see what happens when you tried a low blow in sparring, the instinct and training is different, but in a realistic co-ed course, you'd be able to see exactly how it works, and more importantly, how to fight a man effectively in practice, not just in theory.