School charges student for collecting proof of harassment

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Raptor
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13 Apr 2014, 7:39 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Call me a troll but I think the most practical solution is for people to teach their kids to fight and the earlier the teaching begins the better.

That is not an entirely terrible idea at all....however not so sure every child can effectively learn to do so especially if they have special needs depending on what problems/disorders it's for. But I certainly do not disagree that it would be good to know how to fight...but obviously if a kid can't they certainly shouldn't be left alone to just deal with constant abuse.

True, not all kids will have the capability to even learn to fight but I was speaking mostly for the majority. Unfortunately, the special needs kids won't get much in the way of effective support because of the way bullying is mishandled and will continue to be mishandled.
The case discussed in this thread, while aggravating, really doesnt surprise me since the trend is to shirk moral responsibilities, sandbag legal obligations, pass the buck, and call the goddamn cops for everything.

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Raptor
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13 Apr 2014, 7:44 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Raptor wrote:

[Call me a troll but I think the most practical solution is for people to teach their kids to fight and the earlier the teaching begins the better.

And then instead of getting convicted of disorderly conduct he gets convicted of assault. I don't have a clue what he should do. If he goes back to that school they will knock him out cold because he and the bullies know he can't fight back because he knows he will be the one convicted with 2 convictions on his record.

Those in control in Pennsylvania love their bullies and pedophiles (Penn State/Sandusky case) it seems.

Possibly, but more likely if he would have (or could have) cleaned someones clock it wouldn't even have been reported to anyone. Fights happen in school fairly often without them being found out by anyone in power.

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ASPartOfMe
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13 Apr 2014, 7:50 pm

Raptor wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Raptor wrote:

[Call me a troll but I think the most practical solution is for people to teach their kids to fight and the earlier the teaching begins the better.

Possibly. I was thinking about what is going to happen when he goes back to school after being punished for doing the right thing.

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sonofghandi
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14 Apr 2014, 9:25 am

Raptor wrote:

Call me a troll but I think the most practical solution is for people to teach their kids to fight and the earlier the teaching begins the better.

While I agree with this in principle, it would have the unfortunate side effect that the bullies would also be taught to fight, making them even more powerful.

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trollcatman
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14 Apr 2014, 4:36 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Call me a troll but I think the most practical solution is for people to teach their kids to fight and the earlier the teaching begins the better.

While I agree with this in principle, it would have the unfortunate side effect that the bullies would also be taught to fight, making them even more powerful.

But fighting back is a deterrent. Doesn't even matter who wins, once they know someone will fight back they are more likely to leave that person alone (and probably bully someone else).

sonofghandi
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15 Apr 2014, 7:53 am

trollcatman wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Call me a troll but I think the most practical solution is for people to teach their kids to fight and the earlier the teaching begins the better.

While I agree with this in principle, it would have the unfortunate side effect that the bullies would also be taught to fight, making them even more powerful.

But fighting back is a deterrent. Doesn't even matter who wins, once they know someone will fight back they are more likely to leave that person alone (and probably bully someone else).

If everyone knows how to fight, that is not a deterrent, because there will be no easier targets. That just makes ganging up on the weak much more likely. It will become bullies by majority. Good old pack mentality.

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YippySkippy
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15 Apr 2014, 10:37 am

The school is liable for assaults that occur on their campus. That kid's parents should be suing the pants off that school. The whole incident caught on video? CHA CHING $$$

ASPartOfMe
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15 Apr 2014, 1:05 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Call me a troll but I think the most practical solution is for people to teach their kids to fight and the earlier the teaching begins the better.

While I agree with this in principle, it would have the unfortunate side effect that the bullies would also be taught to fight, making them even more powerful.

It won't make a difference most of the time. Bullies want an easy target. Bullies want to see those they bullied cower, beg for mercy and cry. If you change your routine to avoid them they get off on it because they imposed their will on you.

I did not fight back because as the shortest kid in the class and uncoordinated so I would have lost any fight I was involved in quite badly. Being a logical thinker with poor understanding of motives I figured winning and losing was the only thing that counted. The way I thought was if I fought back and lost the beatings would only get worse. So in my mind not fighting back was the less painful option. I am sorry I did not fight back. While there are no guarantees what would have probably happened is that they would have given up out of frustration. If they did not, among my peers I would have gained respect while they lost it so eventually I would have had people come to my aid. I have mostly forgiven myself for my mistake now that I have the explanation for it but I do wonder what if.

That was the 60’s and 70’s. Everything was not filmed, you did not have the politics, money and litigation involved that you have now. And most importantly in my area (urban slums were very different) you did not have to wonder what the bullies were armed with.

BuyerBeware
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15 Apr 2014, 4:12 pm

Sorry but that's the culture here, and the culture I grew up with.

The bullies are in the majority, and might makes right.

If you get picked on for being a ret*d, it's your fault for acting like a ret*d. So saith the gods of culture in this part of the country.

Which is, basically, why I spend most of my time in my house and do not attempt to engage in social groups or make friends.

As unjust and wrong as I think it is, the young man in question would, for the sake of his own self-defense, do well to learn the same tactics. Sit down, shut up, and make yourself as small (and stoic) a target as possible.

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15 Apr 2014, 4:57 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

trollcatman wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Call me a troll but I think the most practical solution is for people to teach their kids to fight and the earlier the teaching begins the better.

While I agree with this in principle, it would have the unfortunate side effect that the bullies would also be taught to fight, making them even more powerful.

But fighting back is a deterrent. Doesn't even matter who wins, once they know someone will fight back they are more likely to leave that person alone (and probably bully someone else).

If the bullies know a person fights back and that they could get hurt, even if they win in the end, they may think the cost is too great.

chris5000
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15 Apr 2014, 5:30 pm

trollcatman wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

trollcatman wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Call me a troll but I think the most practical solution is for people to teach their kids to fight and the earlier the teaching begins the better.

While I agree with this in principle, it would have the unfortunate side effect that the bullies would also be taught to fight, making them even more powerful.

But fighting back is a deterrent. Doesn't even matter who wins, once they know someone will fight back they are more likely to leave that person alone (and probably bully someone else).

If the bullies know a person fights back and that they could get hurt, even if they win in the end, they may think the cost is too great.

even if the victim wins the fight they will be charged with assault in today's schools

trollcatman
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15 Apr 2014, 5:59 pm

chris5000 wrote:

trollcatman wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

trollcatman wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Call me a troll but I think the most practical solution is for people to teach their kids to fight and the earlier the teaching begins the better.

While I agree with this in principle, it would have the unfortunate side effect that the bullies would also be taught to fight, making them even more powerful.

But fighting back is a deterrent. Doesn't even matter who wins, once they know someone will fight back they are more likely to leave that person alone (and probably bully someone else).

If the bullies know a person fights back and that they could get hurt, even if they win in the end, they may think the cost is too great.

even if the victim wins the fight they will be charged with assault in today's schools

Then that is a stupid system. There is not much else school kids can do against bullies. If they go to a teacher they are considered to be ratting out the bullies. In this case, even filming the bullies resulted in punishment. He might as well have kicked one of them in the balls.

Raptor
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15 Apr 2014, 6:04 pm

/\ A lot of fights are never reported or observed by anyone in power, especially if there are no surveillance cameras. If it's over quickly enough and no serious injuries the screws are none the wiser.

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Raptor
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15 Apr 2014, 6:06 pm

trollcatman wrote:

chris5000 wrote:

trollcatman wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

trollcatman wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Call me a troll but I think the most practical solution is for people to teach their kids to fight and the earlier the teaching begins the better.

While I agree with this in principle, it would have the unfortunate side effect that the bullies would also be taught to fight, making them even more powerful.

But fighting back is a deterrent. Doesn't even matter who wins, once they know someone will fight back they are more likely to leave that person alone (and probably bully someone else).

If the bullies know a person fights back and that they could get hurt, even if they win in the end, they may think the cost is too great.

even if the victim wins the fight they will be charged with assault in today's schools

Then that is a stupid system. There is not much else school kids can do against bullies. If they go to a teacher they are considered to be ratting out the bullies. In this case, even filming the bullies resulted in punishment. He might as well have kicked one of them in the balls.

Precisely! In for a penny, in for a pound.

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trollcatman
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15 Apr 2014, 6:36 pm

And it works! If the bullies see one of them go down to the floor with a painful crotch, they'll be more careful in the future. Deterrence.

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15 Apr 2014, 9:45 pm

I myself might prefer somewhat of a more zen approach. For example, several years ago I wrote this post

Tight, defensive boxing to a draw. One week.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt134616.html

And please don't take a bunch of blows to the head during training or practice. Because all that stuff about post-concussion syndrome and even cumulative lesser blows, is largely true.

Last edited by AardvarkGoodSwimmer on 15 Apr 2014, 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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