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Is EVERY scientific organization in the world part of a conspiracy/hoax?
YES! 14%  14%  [ 7 ]
NO! 86%  86%  [ 42 ]
Total votes : 49

Humanaut
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15 Nov 2014, 1:10 pm

Inventor wrote:
The globe is cooling because of manmade and other warming.

They say we are heading for a new ice age if we don't act now.



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15 Nov 2014, 1:14 pm

Humanaut wrote:
Inventor wrote:
The globe is cooling because of manmade and other warming.

They say we are heading for a new ice age if we don't act now.


Cook or freeze - what great options!


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15 Nov 2014, 1:42 pm

A temperature rise of ~15°C would be perfect, but not colder.



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18 Nov 2014, 2:05 pm

Fnord wrote:
wittgenstein wrote:
It is sad that so far 3 people voted ?yes? showing their lack of critical thinking skills, lack of acquaintance with logic and ignorance of science...

Actually, it shows the exact opposite.

I've spent the last 6 years trying to teach principles of critical thinking to the members of WP, and it looks like my efforts are finally paying off.

Shaming people into believing as you do (a.k.a., "Fallacy of Appeal to Shame") will only drive them further away.

Further, the only thing that is real about "Climategate" is the fact that several weeks before the Copenhagen Summit on climate change, an unknown individual or group breached the Climate Research Group's (CRU) server and copied thousands of emails and computer files to various locations on the Internet -- a clearly illegal act, by the way.

What makes this "Climategate" an utter farce is that the contents of the emails were then selectively taken out of context and blatantly "edited" to reflect the agenda of the "Global Warming is a Scientific Conspiracy" crowd.

No fewer than eight independent committees investigated their allegations and published reports, finding no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct, thus exonerating the CRU and forcing a withdrawal of all other charges against them.

So don't be so surprised that so few people agree with you; most people around here can and do think for themselves, and are no longer easily swayed by falsified data and fallacious reasoning.

Reason has triumphed over fear and doubt. Get used to it.

UMM So you agree with me! Climategate was a farce and a lie.
So few people agree with me? 80% do according to the poll on this thread. Unfortunately, 18% have no understanding of science and critical thinking.
I think you are confused. Read the OP again. I am obviously saying that AGW is real and Inhofe is a fool. How on earth did you think I was saying that global warming is a myth and that climategate actually happened???! !!


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Last edited by wittgenstein on 18 Nov 2014, 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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18 Nov 2014, 2:09 pm

Humanaut wrote:
Inventor wrote:
The globe is cooling because of manmade and other warming.

They say we are heading for a new ice age if we don't act now.

Inventor has no evidence. He is more informed then all of science? The world is cooling? :D Was he joking?


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wittgenstein
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18 Nov 2014, 2:10 pm

Here is REAL science and not inventor's invented silliness.


Is NASA falsifying evidence and part of the conspiracy/hoax?
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Featur ... /page2.php
Is the American Meteorological Society part of the conspiracy/hoax?
?There is unequivocal evidence that Earth?s lower atmosphere, ocean, and land surface are warming; sea level is rising; and snow cover, mountain glaciers, and Arctic sea ice are shrinking.?
FROM
http://www.ametsoc.org/policy/2012climatechange.html
American Association for the Advancement of Science
Federation of Australian Scientific and Technological Societies
United States National Research Council
Royal Society of New Zealand
The Royal Society ( of the United Kingdom)
European Science Foundation
European Academy of Sciences and Arts
African Academy of Sciences
InterAcademy Council
International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences
American Chemical Society[49]
American Institute of Physics[50]
American Physical Society[51]
Australian Institute of Physics[52]
European Physical Society[53]
American Geophysical Union
American Society of Agronomy
European Federation of Geologists
European Geosciences Union
Geological Society of America
Geological Society of London
International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
The Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
World Meteorological Organization
American Quaternary Association
International Union for Quaternary Research
American Astronomical Society[92]
American Statistical Association[93]
The Institution of Engineers Australia[94]
International Association for Great Lakes Research[95]
Institute of Professional Engineers New Zealand[96]
The World Federation of Engineering Organizations (WFEO)
the American Institute of Professional Geologists
Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences

Dissenting?
NONE!! !
All those organizations are falsifying data? If you actually read their positions they are backed up by legitimate data and legitimate logical reasoning. To say that they are all liars and part of an evil conspiracy designed to ruin the powerless petrochemical industry shows an unbelievable ignorance of reality.


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I went up over 50 feet!
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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
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18 Nov 2014, 2:21 pm

Humanaut wrote:
Inventor wrote:
The globe is cooling because of manmade and other warming.

They say we are heading for a new ice age if we don't act now.

I think you should stop listening to the lunatic fringe. Oh yeah, I remember , you are the one with the graph that you made up out of nothing.


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I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


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18 Nov 2014, 2:43 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
It is sad that so far 3 people voted ?yes? showing their lack of critical thinking skills, lack of acquaintance with logic and ignorance of science. It is not just a consensus it is a consensus backed up with empirical data. *
To claim that EVERY scientific organization in the world is falsifying data and part of a conspiracy/hoax is as silly as claiming that http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ori ... titled.png exists. But let?s suppose that such an outrageously ignorant claim is true (that ALL of science is a fraud) , then what do they base their claim that AGW is false on? Obviously, not science, because they dismiss science.
*
Climategate was proven to be a manufactured scandal. The ?neat trick? mentioned in the emails was not nefarious. It was similar to saying, ?I found a neat trick to solve this calculus problem quicker.?
Even if ?climategate? were true (it is obviously not) that was only one minor research facility. To claim that every research facility is falsifying data in pursuit of a conspiracy/hoax would be laughable except that it shows the dismal state of many people?s critical thinking skills.

Fnord, seriously, how did you think I was saying that AGW is false and climategate is a legitimate criticism of global warming? I think you need more comprehension skills.


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YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


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20 Nov 2014, 7:33 am

" A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

It is warming, has been for almost 20,000 years, at a rate of one degree every four thousand years.

Manmade warming added one degree in the last hundred years. Real numbers, 0.81, over 125 years.

The big lie? This will continue.

There is only heat, the more heat the greater the loss.

Loss of heat leads to things like the six foot of snow that just fell on Buffalo NY.

When the air does cool it has a lot more water vapor it drops.

Then dry cool air shrinks, and draws in more moist warm air.

This is just a taste of what is coming.

The Science of Ice Ages, they are all proceeded by the warmest period in a while, then slight cooling from a volcano, meteor strike, leads to six inches of snow falling a day, for a thousand years, over northern Canada, and Scandinavia.

Cool dry air shrinks, drawing in warm moist air, and the conveyer has no reason to stop until the ocean is too salty and cold to evaporate.

This is a Circumpolar Storm, winds flow faster and faster around the Pole, and wind uses up heat energy.

When heat energy is used up in work, it leaves a lack of heat.

I do know more than all the paid Science you quote, and claim I am a tree dweller if I do not agree.

I read Book Two, A Geologic History of Climate.

Unlike your recent Al Gore Pop Science, that demands Carbon Credits and new Taxes, the study of Ice Ages is over 120 years old, and the conditions that produce them are well know.

The 50s were hot, and by the 70s there was fear of a new ice age from a slight cooling trend. It did not continue, it warmed till 1998. It just put it off.

Krakatoa cooled the earth several degrees for years. Meteors have done the same. 1815 was The Year Without Summer. Frosts in each summer month.

It will not take much to make the air unable to hold the buildup of water vapor, and a decade of gain can fall in a winter, then there is nothing to stop it.

It is a cycle, and what you are saying is between March and July it got 40 degrees warmer, and that means it will be 80 degrees warmer by Christmas. Hence all Christmas presents must be taxed again.

It is a lobby to tax energy with some fantastic story.

The whole story is what goes up must come down.

Solar power and breeder reactors are coming along, They will replace CO2 producing methods.

It is a false story because Roman times were hot, in 705 the Black Sea and Nile River froze, by 900 the Vikings came south because their crops would not ripen, and from 1100 to 1300 was The Little Ice Age.

No one was burning coal or oil. It still happened.

It has gotten warmer since, but we are one volcano away from a bigger rerun.

Heat is gradual, the reverse happens all at once when decades of water vapor can no longer be supported.

The more heat pumped into the system the greater the heat loss.

The surface is one thing, but above 15,000 feet it is always cold. Heat rises and vanishes.

We are in a cooling trend. The best science of the 70s said if it continues it can produce an ice age.

Heat is a minor problem and opens new lands for growing grain, Canada and Siberia have great potential.

If a sudden cooling starts an ice age, they last upwards of 5,000 years.

So which is worse, tee shirt weather for a few more days a year, or three miles of ice reaching down to Saint Louis and London.



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20 Nov 2014, 12:01 pm

^^^
Is global warming just pop science when almost all scientists accept it as fact?


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20 Nov 2014, 8:34 pm

Global warming is a fact, and the other fact is it will stall out sometime, dump eight foot of snow on Buffalo, where the roofs are caving in, people are up top with a shovel.

The Climate change models do predict more dynamic weather, larger snows, stronger storms, This year it was Arizona that got a flood of rain, the year before it was Colorado.

Lack of rain is also in the model, it predicted the drought.

What has been left out is what a eventual cooling will do, as years of built up water vapor are purged from the system.

The roofs of Buffalo are straining to hold eight foot, twelve and they all cave in. Big Box stores are not made to carry such a load. It is not even winter yet, and Buffalo has gotten a year of snow.

The model predicted this, and stronger hurricanes, tornados, flood rains, all without a cooling event, such as a volcano.

Warming is also releasing methane from permafrost, and from hydrates in the shallow ocean. Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas. it cannot be taxed.

While science measures from the start of the industrial era, there was a peak of warming in 1500, and the continued warming since is what made growing crops work, and the human population explode.

The same little ice age produced a drought from Mayan lands through the American west, 700 to 1500.

The climate since 1500 has been one of the strangest periods, warming producd a mild and constant climate, regular rainfall, dry falls to ripen and harvest. There is no other period like it.

Climate patterns shift from slight changes, China has had droughts that killed millions several times in the last hundrd years.

Besides which there is nothing we can do, China is big and developing, burning coal in unregulated plants, India is another billion, and they will keep driving the climate.

If we cut back and cool off, it will draw the hot moisture laden air. As it cools, it will dump on us.

The idea that we can do something about this is what is wrong, the energy will work it's way out of the system.

Sooner or later that volcano goes off, it drops the world a few degrees, for a few years, and we get floods, snow, that might last for thousands of years.

It may not happen for a thousand years, last time sea level was 21 foot higher, in a warmer world when it started to snow. It can happen much sooner, as the Little Ice Age showed.

Science, putting all the facts on the table.



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20 Nov 2014, 10:42 pm

Several people have died of global cooling lately, and approximately 1,500 cold records have been set in the US alone just this week. Data from the Danish Meteorological Institute shows an almost 50% increase in Arctic ice from just a year ago, and the IPCC says "it is very likely that the annual Antarctic sea ice extent increased at a rate of between 1.2 and 1.8% per decade between 1979 and 2012," and the growth is continuing, with new records set this year, but the climate change deniers are still fantasizing about warm and cozy weather. Even penguins have frozen to death, and several hundred washed up dead in Brazil recently after trying to flee the cold.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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21 Nov 2014, 9:23 am

For those who think humans aren't destructive and are incapable of ruining their environment, just have a look at all those superfund cleanup sites and locations where nuclear plant cores have melted down. Yep humans can be destructive. Humans are fully capable of creating a global catastrophe. You just need enough places doing enough things and bam there it is. A big fat mess.



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21 Nov 2014, 10:04 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Humans are fully capable of creating a global catastrophe.

A common misconception.



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21 Nov 2014, 10:25 am

Humanaut wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Humans are fully capable of creating a global catastrophe.

A common misconception.


The Middle East used to be a heavily forested region, till human deforestation. And that was done by humans using Neolithic level technology.


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21 Nov 2014, 10:50 am

And no global catastrophe followed.