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androbot01
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15 Dec 2014, 4:14 pm

Humanaut wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
It seemed the police were escalating the situation as usual.

They are not peace negotiators, but a force. They're generally being too soft, in my opinion.

Why not though? Why not just let them yell their slogans - it was the police who became violent. Why shouldn't they be peace negotiators, or at least, keep the peace.



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15 Dec 2014, 4:33 pm

Feel free to make the case.



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15 Dec 2014, 4:35 pm

Humanaut wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
It seemed the police were escalating the situation as usual.

They are not peace negotiators, but a force. They're generally being too soft, in my opinion.


Would you have been more impressed if they had broke out the batons and really went to town on people, beating the sh*t out of everyone....or perhaps some of those ridiculously high powered water hoses needed to be turned on them :roll:

Well here in Colorado we don't want a police state thank you very much, or violation of rights to assemble to protest things...what would be next arresting people for walking around getting signatures for a petition, or even questioning the system whatsoever, yeah sounds grim to me.


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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 15 Dec 2014, 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sweetleaf
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15 Dec 2014, 4:40 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
It seemed the police were escalating the situation as usual.

They are not peace negotiators, but a force. They're generally being too soft, in my opinion.

Why not though? Why not just let them yell their slogans - it was the police who became violent. Why shouldn't they be peace negotiators, or at least, keep the peace.


Yeah I'd think if maybe they learned some peace keeping skills that would help in crowd situations. I'd think they should be more about keeping the peace then being forceful, but good luck with that. Now obviously there are dangerous criminals and thus they need to be able to defend themselves and be able to stop them hurting others and what not...but yeah much of the time they are far too quick to agression and that is a dangerous thing when they are the ones enforcing the 'laws' just look at some of what has gone on before any facist nation was created, the police became a 'force' above all else a force to opress and control....and it almost seems some people here in this country would be perfectly ok with things going that way.


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15 Dec 2014, 4:54 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
It seemed the police were escalating the situation as usual.
They are not peace negotiators, but a force. They're generally being too soft, in my opinion.
Would you have been more impressed if they had broke out the batons and really went to town on people...

It depends on the circumstances.



androbot01
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15 Dec 2014, 4:55 pm

Humanaut wrote:
Feel free to make the case.

Not sure what constitutes "making the case," but I'll say that I think that the goal should be to have as little violence as possible. So I'm going on the assumption that the less violence the better, but perhaps you disagree. I just realized that I have no idea what these people were protesting. Is this about the Garner case? But at any rate, people have a right to peaceful protest.

Sweetleaf wrote:
....and it almost seems some people here in this country would be perfectly ok with things going that way.

I think some would. From someone looking from the outside, the states seem to be becoming too different to be able to cooperate with each other. I would not be surprised to see the United States start to break apart. There's a movement on the West Coast, I can't remember the name of it, but they want to join coastal BC with Washington and Oregon, in keeping with the natural ecosystem.



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15 Dec 2014, 5:07 pm

androbot01 wrote:
...people have a right to peaceful protest.

Sure, but not anywhere, anytime, or under all circumstances. Public spaces are in most cases regulated in accordance with their intended function and use. Those who for some reason fail to adhere to the rules and regulations will be removed. By force if necessary. This is common practice within all civilized societies.



androbot01
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15 Dec 2014, 5:18 pm

Humanaut wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
...people have a right to peaceful protest.

Sure, but not anywhere, anytime, or under all circumstances. Public spaces are in most cases regulated in accordance with their intended function and use. Those who for some reason fail to adhere to the rules and regulations will be removed. By force if necessary. This is common practice within all civilized societies.


I agree that public spaces are regulated and that makes sense. Public safety is an issue if people are gathering in excess. But it doesn't make sense to prevent what is feared will happen by preemptively doing the very thing that one is seeking to prevent.



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15 Dec 2014, 5:48 pm

Today is U.S. Bill of Rights Day http://www.billofrightsinstitute.org/re ... rights-day .

Enjoy!


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15 Dec 2014, 6:38 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
BuyerBeware wrote:
Frankly I'd say "due process" is for the lawyers, and the Constitution at this point really doesn't exist outside of public school social studies classes.

How do you stay out of trouble??

Don't join in.

Don't do something stupid like I just did there and stick your neck out on the Internet.

Don't say anything that could be construed as a threat in the most arcane, paranoid interpretation. Because we're moving toward a more paranoid world.

Don't be around protest marches or demonstrations. Be a chickenshit. Try to be situationally aware (in fact, stop thinking about what you're doing and if you look normal enough doing it, and look around and take note of what's going on in the surrounding area). If you see a large group of people forming, consider it time to GeTFOOD (Get The f**k Out Of Dodge). You should already be gone by the time they start chanting stuff and waving signs.

Because, yes, even if you're just trying to do your marketing or catch a train, you're autistic. That means you just happen to have a "f**k with me face."


Doesn't look like I am capable of staying out of trouble than....I'd be more inclined to pull out my phone that has a camra find a good vantage point and then if anything like cops behaving like a mob of wild boars occurs I can get it on video. If one of them tries to stop me than my plan is run away as fast as I can and hope I run faster than them. Sure it freaks me out but....it also pisses me off that this is how the citizens of this country are treated by the police who are supposed to 'serve and protect' so can't very well ignore it and do nothing it would be easier for me if I could probably.


Godspeed. It's been pretty well established that I'm a miserable coward. Maybe a few thousand idealists with cell phone cameras can turn things back around. I'm not holding my breath, but I won't say it's impossible.

Do yourself a couple of favors. 1) Make sure you're not holding in excess of the law (I know you're in CO and the rules are different there now) before you climb up on your vantage point and start filming. 2) If they catch up to you, stop resisting. At that point, it's time to go limp and live to fight another day. Do the MLK thing, man. Go to jail singing Bob Marley, not to the morgue shouting "f**k you Pig."

There are actually more than a few secessionist movements in America right now, on both ends the political spectrum. On the radical right, you've got the American Redoubt. I haven't kept up with the radical left in almost a decade now, but I'm sure they're there. There may be some in CO, but I think most of them are aiming for the slice of the West Coast not already taken up by gangs and/or the Redoubters.

I would say, given the direction this country is taking, that another civil war is just about inevitable, and sooner rather than later. I'm still holding out hope for peaceful secession. I think the peaceful dissolution of the union, possibly with amiable trade relationships, would be in the best interests of 98% of the populace. Unfortunately, the other 2% seems to be calling the shots these days.

Off to review the BoR with my kids. Much good may it do 'em.


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15 Dec 2014, 10:00 pm

Humanaut wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
...people have a right to peaceful protest.

Sure, but not anywhere, anytime, or under all circumstances. Public spaces are in most cases regulated in accordance with their intended function and use. Those who for some reason fail to adhere to the rules and regulations will be removed. By force if necessary. This is common practice within all civilized societies.


But there is the right to peaceably assemble, and the area in which they assembled was public space....so there was nothing illegal about it, public space isn't just for tourists and shoppers. There is no rule or regulation against assembling in that location....I could see if they went into a private buisiness or a government builiding it would have been perfectly legal to get them out of the premisis but it was a public sidewalk.


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15 Dec 2014, 10:09 pm

In my experience -and I mean including everyone I personally know- most of the time cops are the most damaging people out there.

99% of the time, stay away from cops and you'll get 99% less damage, of all types.


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16 Dec 2014, 12:06 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
...people have a right to peaceful protest.

Sure, but not anywhere, anytime, or under all circumstances. Public spaces are in most cases regulated in accordance with their intended function and use. Those who for some reason fail to adhere to the rules and regulations will be removed. By force if necessary. This is common practice within all civilized societies.

But there is the right to peaceably assemble, and the area in which they assembled was public space....so there was nothing illegal about it, public space isn't just for tourists and shoppers. There is no rule or regulation against assembling in that location....I could see if they went into a private buisiness or a government builiding it would have been perfectly legal to get them out of the premisis but it was a public sidewalk.

So they were blocking the sidewalk. Sidewalks are built for a purpose, and if this purpose is hindered by disorderly activities, then order must be restored. In other words, the sidewalk should be recaptured from the delinquents, by force if necessary, so that its intended function can be reinstated for the public good.



androbot01
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16 Dec 2014, 12:46 am

Humanaut wrote:
So they were blocking the sidewalk. Sidewalks are built for a purpose, and if this purpose is hindered by disorderly activities, then order must be restored. In other words, the sidewalk should be recaptured from the delinquents, by force if necessary, so that its intended function can be reinstated for the public good.

Were they blocking the sidewalk though? There is no evidence anyone was being impeded. They were in a fairly open space. Again, I see it as a cost/benefit analysis. Is it worth degrading into violence to clear the people, who are behaving non-violently.



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16 Dec 2014, 3:03 am

Humanaut wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
...people have a right to peaceful protest.

Sure, but not anywhere, anytime, or under all circumstances. Public spaces are in most cases regulated in accordance with their intended function and use. Those who for some reason fail to adhere to the rules and regulations will be removed. By force if necessary. This is common practice within all civilized societies.


But it is an open public space and there are no rules against people assembling there, I know exactly where it is, I have freaking been there and as far as I can tell there is no rule or regulation that realistially or even legally makes it a crime to assemble there...its not a private property, its not near government buildings just a random spot in downtown denver with a lightrail train stop near by....nothing whatsoever about a group of people assembling there being illegal.


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16 Dec 2014, 3:08 am

Humanaut wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
...people have a right to peaceful protest.

Sure, but not anywhere, anytime, or under all circumstances. Public spaces are in most cases regulated in accordance with their intended function and use. Those who for some reason fail to adhere to the rules and regulations will be removed. By force if necessary. This is common practice within all civilized societies.

But there is the right to peaceably assemble, and the area in which they assembled was public space....so there was nothing illegal about it, public space isn't just for tourists and shoppers. There is no rule or regulation against assembling in that location....I could see if they went into a private buisiness or a government builiding it would have been perfectly legal to get them out of the premisis but it was a public sidewalk.

So they were blocking the sidewalk. Sidewalks are built for a purpose, and if this purpose is hindered by disorderly activities, then order must be restored. In other words, the sidewalk should be recaptured from the delinquents, by force if necessary, so that its intended function can be reinstated for the public good.


uhh beings I have been there, there is plenty of room anyone could have walked around or taken a side street, its downtown for f***ks sake, they block it off entire roads, for parades and then b***h if protesters so much as congregate on a sidewalk. And its actually a very large sidewalk, with plenty of room to walk up the street off the sidewalk too....there are like maybe two bars and a couple restuaratns by there, nothing people 'had to get to' being blocked.


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