IS: 21 Egyptian Christians held in Libya 'killed'

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Gaddafi was a monster like Sadam Hussien in Iraq. The western world did very little when Gaddafi was blowing up commercial airlines or shooting people outside the Lybian embassy in London. The people in his own country have been desensitised to violence, hence without any semblance of stable government now in Lybia they turn to violence to vent their anger. The mistake by the west wasn't in ousting Gaddafi. The mistake by the west was in waiting so long before doing anything about Gaddafi. Like Iraq, the situation in Lybia has to play out before it gets better.

You're really overrating the power of the U.S. to influence the rest of the world. There's Russia, Britian and France who want a say in world affairs and then there's the emergence of China and India. And the ancient Roman Empire is the most powerful country in human history which spanned for a thousand years, whereas the U.S. has been the most powerful country on earth over the last few decades, not forgetting the British empire which spanned over two or three centuries.

The world hasn't really changed much, except we live longer now. After the ISIS terrorists have a hard day beheading western christians they will stop by McDonalds for a burger and chips, smoke marlborough cigarettes, watch American Internet porn, and have a glass of Johnny Walker for a nightcap. The head of ISIS will wake up in the morning and check his gold $5000 Rolex watch and then sound the morning wake up call for his brainwashed cult followers to embark on a another day of purging the middle east of western influence.

Just another Tuesday for the Bisons of the world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlhOUyy4wbs

Aperta Verbum
http://apertaverbum.weebly.com/

Gaddafi supported terrorism but so have many countries we consider allies as well as ourselves, there is no argument that life was and will continue to be better for Libyans under his rule than it is post NATO intervention. Libya before all this happened was the most developed country in Africa and gave before NATO "made them safe for democracy" and destroyed their infrastructure. As long as that sweet crude keeps flowing, it's all good. Our mistake is getting involved in places we shouldn't, not foreseeing or caring about the consequences of our actions. Do you think the US really goes to war for the reasons it sells to the public? The US doesn't really care about democracy or human rights, we live in an immoral world of realpolitik where all that matters is the pursuit of power and riches(not to the common man but a very select elite few)

Saddam was a monster but he was our monster before he wasn't, we put him into power and armed his war against Iran who we also sold weapons to. He invaded Kuwait thinking the US gave him the green light and perhaps we did knowing what would come next, our government has always coveted empire. How can we condemn one country for human rights abuses but then turn a blind eye to another and call them our allies? The answer to that is that none of these conflicts we get into is actually about protecting human rights or ensuring democracy, its all apart of the great game. Saudi Arabia beheads more people than ISIS but they're our greatest ally in the Middle East next to the apartheid state of Israel.

Things aren't ever going to get better as we're the root cause to the problem, only worse and if we continue down this path it will take us down as well. Violence will always beget violence, we can't bomb and occupy our way to "victory" whatever that means. We can make people like Dick Cheney and Erik Prince rich but it won't make the world safer, it won't make us any freer, it won't lessen the suffering of these imprisoned peoples. We're not all playing on the same team even if they'd like us to think we are, it is not in our best interests but maybe it is theirs but they're not the ones that sacrifice anything.

ISIS didn't come out of nowhere, their ideology isn't born out of nothingness. We've overthrown their democratically elected governments, we occupy their cities, we bomb their families, they do not "hate us because our freedoms" and anybody that believes that is an idiot. We've created this monster by our own actions, their ideology doesn't appeal to normal people living theirs lives but rather desperate marginalized ones who feel they have no other options. You have to actually try to under the motivations of these people, if you don't understand the context then you won't understand why our actions have the opposite effect as intended and will continue to be stupefied by the state of the world. You are the ones not living in reality, this isn't some Call Of Duty that you can win. Before the War On Terror, Al Qaeda only had a couple hundred guerrilla fights in the mountains of Afghanistan but now because of actions we have a terrorist group that controls territory with has a 100k fighters with advanced equipment that the US provided and a real economy based on oil and they're spreading. It's not getting better, we are losing.

Thomas Jefferson was an imperfect man but I've always liked his quote about what the foreign policy of America should be, "peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none."

Their ideology is Islam.

A global war between Arab moderates and Islamists is an inevitable phase for the region - with or without american interventionism ; and with or without the likes of Gaddafi.

I've foreseen this will be an aftermath of the Arab spring years ago, I've expressed this 'prophetic' prediction in posts couple of years ago, anyone who lived here could smell this upcoming 'quake':

viewtopic.php?t=233646


As for the Gaddafi, lol - let's not forget what his son said:

viewtopic.php?t=174747

It looks like I was wrong.

"Egypt says it bombed ISIS a targets in Libya after killings of Christians."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/16/middleeas ... index.html

Good for Egypt. Egypt is right between Libya and Israel. I can't imagine their tourist industry is thriving.

Show'em the blazes of hell, Mr. President of Egypt.

The Arab Spring was a bust, it looks to be the beginning of world war stretching from West Africa to South Asia. How is Field Marshall Sisi different to Mubarak? What has been gained out of this other than a tremendous destabilization? Egypt will have to fight ISIS because ISIS is taking the fight to them, there is an insurgency in Sinai and have set up shop right next door in Derna. At this point I don't what our options truly are, things are going to get much much worse.

Appreciate your long post Jacoby but just want to make a couple of points:
Gaddafi maintained harems in his inner circle. He used to visit the local schools in his domain, kidnap the pretty girls so he could rape them afterwards and top up his haram. This is the actions of a madman who happens to be the leader of a country and the rest of the world does nothing about him until the Arab spring.
Saudi Arabia beheads criminals who have been tried in a court of law. ISIS beheads people because they are Christians. There is a difference.
We haven't invaded the lands of ISIS. It is ISIS who have invaded Arab lands and wish to invade Christian lands.

Being a homosexual or adulterous is a capital offense is Saudi Arabia so saying they only behead criminals doesn't mean much. They behead, stone, and literally crucify people for all types of offenses. They're one of the leading human rights abusers in the world and also the chief exporter of this extremist brand of Islam.

I'm not saying Gaddafi was a good man but he did reinvest his countries oil revenue in his people and he gave aid to many other countries, the US has and continues to enthusiastically support much more brutal dictatorships so why did we single him out especially considering he renounced terrorism and gave up his WMDs? He posed zero threat to any NATO country.

We have invaded "ISIS lands", this is an uprising of Sunni Iraq that we marginalized when we invaded back in 2003. The cities of Fallujah, Ramadi, and Mosul where we lost so much blood were taken over by ISIS like nothing; the Iraqi Army turned tail and ran out of fear or sympathy. If you listen to any of these people talk, they aren't attacking us because our religion or our freedom. Religious fervor is not what really appeals to these people, every interview I've ever seen including those of Osama Bin Laden before 9/11 cite legitimate grievances of US aggression. It is no surprise that the children that witnessed the American invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq have grown up into the jihadists we have to deal with today, it was entirely predictable.

Ron Paul had a great ad back in 2012 that illustrated the anger directed towards the US by these countries

In what way is that 'enemy propaganda'.

A more correct question is "who is the enemy"

Most of the propaganda stems from the Middle East and Russia, and has been spread by outlets like Press TV and Russia Today to useful idiots in the West, like Ron Paul's baptist revival movement, conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones, and fringe elements on the left, from where it has been picked up by gullible and misguided individuals suffering from confirmation bias tendencies. Much has, and could still be written on the subject. Propaganada is also used by the West, of course.