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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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15 Jul 2015, 9:33 am

Be real. Out of everything in the entire region the only one that has anything in common with us is Israel. So why would anyone in the US trust Iran? It would be a mistake counting them as an ally because there's no indication they trust us or like us much while Israel at least tries to meet us halfway.



blauSamstag
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15 Jul 2015, 9:46 am

Iran's government isn't really representative of their middle and upper classes.

I am not saying they are going to be an ally any time soon but remember that japan and germany used to be our sworn enemies too.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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15 Jul 2015, 10:50 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Iran's government isn't really representative of their middle and upper classes.

I am not saying they are going to be an ally any time soon but remember that japan and germany used to be our sworn enemies too.



Yeah and look what it took to bring everyone together :eye:

Do we want to go through that in the Middle East?



blauSamstag
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15 Jul 2015, 11:21 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Iran's government isn't really representative of their middle and upper classes.

I am not saying they are going to be an ally any time soon but remember that japan and germany used to be our sworn enemies too.



Yeah and look what it took to bring everyone together :eye:

Do we want to go through that in the Middle East?


Of course not, that's why we need diplomacy instead of war.



Jacoby
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15 Jul 2015, 11:34 am

Iran wears the face of a fanatic but they're much more rational and moderate than the rhetoric that comes out of their leaders, they don't want war with Israel or especially the United States since they're not delusional enough to think they can win. They're not suicidal. They have pretty specific grievances with the US and we bear the brunt of the responsibility for them being a theocracy now. Of course they're going to talk tough about Israel, it serves as a distraction for their populace when their economy has been faltering and they're not going to admit their own weakness. Iran has much more pressing concerns against Saudi Arabia, they're basically fighting two proxy wars against each other in Syria and Yemen.

I support this deal because we don't have any other options, we have to give peace a chance. Sanctions are an act of war and economic engagement + diplomacy are much more beneficial to avoiding war because if you can make money and work together there isn't much reason to fight. Reagan had the same view towards the Soviets and got rid of a lot of economic sanctions against them when he became president.



nurseangela
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15 Jul 2015, 2:21 pm

It's being discussed on the radio that there is something in the agreement about the inspections. Inspections have to first be "ok'd" and then Iran has 24 days to comply with whatever in the documentation they are not living up to. However, 24+ days is long enough for Iran to cover up and get rid of anything they are doing that is not in accordance with the nuclear agreement. Can anyone find this in the Agreement and explain what they are talking about?

(I found something about 30 days and don't know if that is it or not)


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15 Jul 2015, 2:33 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
When does Israel and Saudi Arabia attack Iran?

Soon?
Next US administration?
10 years when the inspections stop?


I don't think israel or saudi arabia think they have anything to gain by attacking iran.

In fact, the head of mossad has said that attacking iran would give iran every reason to build a nuclear weapon and use it against israel.


You do no understand Israeli mentality. Every action by anybody is 1. The next holocaust 2. Potentially the next holocaust 3. The beginning of a slippery slope towered the next holocaust. They have been dependent enough on the US to prohibit them so far. If they perceive the US is allying with Iran to fight ISIS despite the massive risks of openly defying the US and the world they will do so even if they calculate Iran poses a 5% existential risk for them.

As for the Saudis up until now they have relied on money to take care of threats. In Yeman this changed. Once the line has been crossed it becomes easier to keep going further


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Jacoby
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15 Jul 2015, 2:39 pm

We don't even need inspectors in 2015, maybe so we can say we know officially but I'm confident in our surveillance and espionage capabilities in determining whether or not Iran is actually working to acquire the bomb. The absence of evidence may not be evidence of absence but you can't like your life as if absence is evidence because that is what an insane person does. Israel has nuclear weapons and probably the most advanced advance detection systems in the world, don't worry about them! Hell, maybe the solution here is Israel and the US and whoever else will ally with us to develop a modern day Star Wars program like the one Reagan proposed that would automatically shoot down any incoming ICMBs. Maybe that's the solution to all our problems, it would revive the space program too.



nurseangela
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15 Jul 2015, 3:50 pm

Jacoby wrote:
We don't even need inspectors in 2015, maybe so we can say we know officially but I'm confident in our surveillance and espionage capabilities in determining whether or not Iran is actually working to acquire the bomb. The absence of evidence may not be evidence of absence but you can't like your life as if absence is evidence because that is what an insane person does. Israel has nuclear weapons and probably the most advanced advance detection systems in the world, don't worry about them! Hell, maybe the solution here is Israel and the US and whoever else will ally with us to develop a modern day Star Wars program like the one Reagan proposed that would automatically shoot down any incoming ICMBs. Maybe that's the solution to all our problems, it would revive the space program too.


Was this for me? If it is, don't tell me not to worry (especially with an exclamation point) and I'm not insane. I have my reasons for being concerned even if you can't understand that. In fact, anyone who is not religious probably wouldn't understand my concerns. Everything happening in this world is not always logical. Whether you know it or not, this ISIS thing going on in the Middle East is a religious war. Israel and Iran are in on this religious war and this nuclear deal is following along with how ISIS wants. They want Israel wiped off the face of the earth along with the Western way of life - which is the US. I'm not worried about Israel because according to the Bible they will be taken care of - in fact Israel is probably going to be the safest place on earth.


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Jacoby
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15 Jul 2015, 4:10 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
We don't even need inspectors in 2015, maybe so we can say we know officially but I'm confident in our surveillance and espionage capabilities in determining whether or not Iran is actually working to acquire the bomb. The absence of evidence may not be evidence of absence but you can't like your life as if absence is evidence because that is what an insane person does. Israel has nuclear weapons and probably the most advanced advance detection systems in the world, don't worry about them! Hell, maybe the solution here is Israel and the US and whoever else will ally with us to develop a modern day Star Wars program like the one Reagan proposed that would automatically shoot down any incoming ICMBs. Maybe that's the solution to all our problems, it would revive the space program too.


Was this for me? If it is, don't tell me not to worry (especially with an exclamation point) and I'm not insane. I have my reasons for being concerned even if you can't understand that. In fact, anyone who is not religious probably wouldn't understand my concerns. Everything happening in this world is not always logical. Whether you know it or not, this ISIS thing going on in the Middle East is a religious war. Israel and Iran are in on this religious war and this nuclear deal is following along with how ISIS wants. They want Israel wiped off the face of the earth along with the Western way of life - which is the US. I'm not worried about Israel because according to the Bible they will be taken care of - in fact Israel is probably going to be the safest place on earth.


You are entitled to your views, I can respect that. You are right, as it written there is nothing to be worried or concerned about at all.



blauSamstag
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15 Jul 2015, 4:17 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
We don't even need inspectors in 2015, maybe so we can say we know officially but I'm confident in our surveillance and espionage capabilities in determining whether or not Iran is actually working to acquire the bomb. The absence of evidence may not be evidence of absence but you can't like your life as if absence is evidence because that is what an insane person does. Israel has nuclear weapons and probably the most advanced advance detection systems in the world, don't worry about them! Hell, maybe the solution here is Israel and the US and whoever else will ally with us to develop a modern day Star Wars program like the one Reagan proposed that would automatically shoot down any incoming ICMBs. Maybe that's the solution to all our problems, it would revive the space program too.


Was this for me? If it is, don't tell me not to worry (especially with an exclamation point) and I'm not insane. I have my reasons for being concerned even if you can't understand that. In fact, anyone who is not religious probably wouldn't understand my concerns. Everything happening in this world is not always logical. Whether you know it or not, this ISIS thing going on in the Middle East is a religious war. Israel and Iran are in on this religious war and this nuclear deal is following along with how ISIS wants. They want Israel wiped off the face of the earth along with the Western way of life - which is the US. I'm not worried about Israel because according to the Bible they will be taken care of - in fact Israel is probably going to be the safest place on earth.



Uhh. No.

Daesh (isis) is fighting a religious war, but they espouse one particular brand of islam.

Jordan and Iran have been trying to help groups that are fighting daesh.

Israel has been interfering with that because Hezbollah is one of those groups.

There are many brands of islam just as there are many brands of christianity and several brands of Judaism.

Just as a baptist or methodist may say a mormon isn't a christian, many of the muslim groups don't get along. It's stupid to think of them as a monolythic force, stupider to think of them as a monolythic force for evil.