Ke$ha is told she's under contractual obligations

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Aristophanes
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28 Sep 2015, 11:28 am

The solution is simple: Sony lets her record with another producer until the initial court case is settled. She gets to continue recording, Sony gets to save face, and this Luke fellow gets his day in court without any other crap muddying the waters. If he's guilty any contract she has with him, individually, should be voided by the court. If he's innocent the counter-suit for breach of contract should continue and any music she's made with another Sony producer in the mean time should revert back to this Luke person's individual contract. It's not rocket science, and it's equitable to all parties in the dispute.



Magneto
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28 Sep 2015, 12:29 pm

Barchan wrote:
Magneto wrote:
It's posts like this that make me dread ever having to face 12 people selected at random.

Do you really think being the defendant in a criminal trial is comparable to being a victim of crime? Do you think being judged by a panel of jurors is equivalent to being raped by your employer? Your fears do not trump hers.

Ye gods. I never compared being wrongly convicted to being sexually assaulted, I just stated that I dread ever being in a situation where my entire life can be destroyed due to someone like you being on a jury.



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28 Sep 2015, 6:13 pm

Being wrongly convicted is a form of rape. A person wrongly convicted is having a painful and humiliating act forced upon him when he did nothing to "ask for it".

But if an actual rape - forced sexual assault with bodily penetration - actually took place, then the convicted person did indeed "ask for" the conviction.

Has the accused been convicted? Has the case been heard? Has the accused been booked on charges yet? Is there even any physical evidence - a "Rape Kit" perhaps?

Quote:
A while back, Kesha filed a lawsuit against Dr. Luke, her producer. Her lawsuit stated that he abused, drugged, and raped her. Rather than trying to acknowledge these allegations, Dr. Luke filed his own claims stating that these were merely fabricated lies she was using to get out of her contract with Dr. Luke and Sony Records.

Without any physical evidence to back up her claims this is clearly a case of "He said / She said". Dr. Luke is under no obligation whatsoever to acknowledge anything. His counter-suit is justifiable.

The rest seems to be a classic case of "Trial by Media".

:roll:



Barchan
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28 Sep 2015, 10:58 pm

Fnord wrote:
Being wrongly convicted is a form of rape.


No. Just... no.



Fnord
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29 Sep 2015, 8:20 am

Still no mention of material evidence or police involvement.

I have money riding on the outcome - if the case goes to trial, then I lose. If they settle out of court, then I win.

I expect an out-of-court settlement, wherein the contract is set aside, she receives a large cash award as "hush money", and he is not convicted of any crime.

Without material evidence to back up her accusations, all she can do is stir up trouble through the media, and hope that the adverse publicity forces him to break the contract.

Celebrities ... :roll:



Barchan
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29 Sep 2015, 12:49 pm

Fnord wrote:
I have money riding on the outcome - if the case goes to trial, then I lose. If they settle out of court, then I win.


You're acting like this is a horse race. Like rape is nothing but sport. And what's worse is you're cheering for the wrong side. This is sadism, pure and simple. I have nothing more to say to a sadist.



Fnord
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29 Sep 2015, 6:18 pm

Barchan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have money riding on the outcome - if the case goes to trial, then I lose. If they settle out of court, then I win.
You're acting like this is a horse race. Like rape is nothing but sport. And what's worse is you're cheering for the wrong side. This is sadism, pure and simple. I have nothing more to say to a sadist.
Where is there any alleged evidence that this "Ke$ha" was allegedly raped?

All we have is her alleged testimony than an alleged rape allegedly took place.

Evidence, please?

By the way, I am not a sadist. Opportunistic, arrogant, and self-important, to be sure; but certainly not a sadist.



Skilpadde
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29 Sep 2015, 9:59 pm

[MODERATOR WARNING]

Personal attacks are against the site's rules. Threads that degenerate into personal attacks may be locked.

Please keep it civil.

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eric76
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29 Sep 2015, 10:25 pm

Barchan wrote:
Magneto wrote:
Are you going to offer the same respect to her producer, and not water down his story?

Let me think about it... mmm, nah.

"Alleged" is just a polite way of calling someone a liar. It's the written equivalent of a raised eyebrow.


Not at all.

It just means that some kind of allegations have been made and says absolutely nothing about whether those allegations are true or false.

Barchan wrote:
Magneto wrote:
It's posts like this that make me dread ever having to face 12 people selected at random.

Do you really think being the defendant in a criminal trial is comparable to being a victim of crime? Do you think being judged by a panel of jurors is equivalent to being raped by your employer? Your fears do not trump hers.

cberg wrote:
Private interests have no legitimate claim to creativity in others.

I agree. Aside from the sexual abuse, I think this really just shows the problem with America's corporate culture. Nobody should be able to just buy someone's basic human rights and freedom of expression. This is essentially slavery.


So why did she sign the contract?



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30 Sep 2015, 9:25 pm

Why does anyone sign a contract?

1) Because "Good fences make good neighbors".

The best way to avoid arguments in a business relationship is to write down both parties' expectations ahead of time. That document becomes a boundary marker -- like a fence between neighboring yards -- explaining who's responsible for what.

The dominant expectation is that the first person will receive something from the second person, while the second person receives something of equal value from the first. This is called a "Quid-Pro-Quo" contract (literally, "This-For-That").

2) Because both sides get what they want.

Car sellers get money, while cars buyers get cars. Obvious, right? Then the buyer may also add the stipulation that the seller pays for all major repairs for the first year. In return, the seller may then add the stipulation that the buyer brings the car in on the first of each month for a free check-up and oil change.

A performer may sign a contract with a producer. The performer agrees to provide marketable material for distribution, while the producer agrees to pay the performer for the right to distribute the material.

Things get sticky when a disagreement ensues over creativity. The producer may try to convince the performer that only certain kinds of performances are marketable. The performer counters with the assertion that pandering to market forces stifles creativity. The producer then it holds from the market any performances that he deems unmarketable, while the performer insists on providing unmarked able performances.

Note that inherent in the right to distribute is the right to not distribute. This is where things get ugly. The producer demands performances that meet certain standards, while the performer refuses to meet those standards. An impasse usually ensues, until one or the other party relents, or the contract expires.

Meanwhile, the producer is receiving unmarketable performances, and the performer is not getting paid.

What to do?

Wait for the contract to expire? That may take years.

Wait for the performer to give in? The performer can collaborate on uncredited performances for "scale" -- less money than what the contracted producer will pay, but it is still pay.

Wait for the producer to give in? The producer likely has hundreds of other performers providing marketable performances.

Invent a scandal to shame and embarrass the other person into buying off the contract? Now we're talking! Hypothetically speaking ...

[speculation]

The performer accuses the producer of wrong-doing, and announces it to the press in a gamble that the producer will want to sweep everything under the rug and buy the performer's silence.

Except it doesn't always work that way.

Any producer worth his chops will know that if you give in to one extortionist, others will soon follow. Thus, the smart producer will say "Bring it on" and wait for his day in court, where he will demand that the performer present bona fide material evidence for examination under the watchful eye of a judge, two lawyers, and twelve impartial witnesses.

And if there is no bona fide material evidence, the case devolves into mere conflicting claims, and the case will likely get thrown out of court.

Meanwhile, the contract is still in effect, and the performer is not getting paid.

[/speculation]

... Hypothetically speaking, of course!



eric76
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02 Oct 2015, 6:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
Why does anyone sign a contract?

1) Because "Good fences make good neighbors".

The best way to avoid arguments in a business relationship is to write down both parties' expectations ahead of time. That document becomes a boundary marker -- like a fence between neighboring yards -- explaining who's responsible for what.

The dominant expectation is that the first person will receive something from the second person, while the second person receives something of equal value from the first. This is called a "Quid-Pro-Quo" contract (literally, "This-For-That").

2) Because both sides get what they want.

Car sellers get money, while cars buyers get cars. Obvious, right? Then the buyer may also add the stipulation that the seller pays for all major repairs for the first year. In return, the seller may then add the stipulation that the buyer brings the car in on the first of each month for a free check-up and oil change.

A performer may sign a contract with a producer. The performer agrees to provide marketable material for distribution, while the producer agrees to pay the performer for the right to distribute the material.

Things get sticky when a disagreement ensues over creativity. The producer may try to convince the performer that only certain kinds of performances are marketable. The performer counters with the assertion that pandering to market forces stifles creativity. The producer then it holds from the market any performances that he deems unmarketable, while the performer insists on providing unmarked able performances.

Note that inherent in the right to distribute is the right to not distribute. This is where things get ugly. The producer demands performances that meet certain standards, while the performer refuses to meet those standards. An impasse usually ensues, until one or the other party relents, or the contract expires.

Meanwhile, the producer is receiving unmarketable performances, and the performer is not getting paid.

What to do?

Wait for the contract to expire? That may take years.

Wait for the performer to give in? The performer can collaborate on uncredited performances for "scale" -- less money than what the contracted producer will pay, but it is still pay.

Wait for the producer to give in? The producer likely has hundreds of other performers providing marketable performances.

Invent a scandal to shame and embarrass the other person into buying off the contract? Now we're talking! Hypothetically speaking ...

[speculation]

The performer accuses the producer of wrong-doing, and announces it to the press in a gamble that the producer will want to sweep everything under the rug and buy the performer's silence.

Except it doesn't always work that way.

Any producer worth his chops will know that if you give in to one extortionist, others will soon follow. Thus, the smart producer will say "Bring it on" and wait for his day in court, where he will demand that the performer present bona fide material evidence for examination under the watchful eye of a judge, two lawyers, and twelve impartial witnesses.

And if there is no bona fide material evidence, the case devolves into mere conflicting claims, and the case will likely get thrown out of court.

Meanwhile, the contract is still in effect, and the performer is not getting paid.

[/speculation]

... Hypothetically speaking, of course!


That's pretty much right. Basically to iron out the details of an agreement so that they may be enforceable in court.

It's just not musicians who have contracts regarding what the produce. Employment contracts for higher level people are quite common. How enforceable they may be depends largely on where you are. In Texas, non-compete agreements or non-compete clauses in employment contracts are often not worth the effort.

As for the musician in question (I assume a singer or something), she received an offer which she accepted. Without the agreement she may not have been able to make as much use of her talent because it undoubtedly opened many doors for her.



thewrll
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05 Oct 2015, 5:40 pm

She is probably under a 360 contract, where you sell your soul for profits.


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05 Oct 2015, 9:07 pm

Fnord wrote:
traven wrote:
what you must do these days to attract attention.
I usually just yawn in church. Although buying a round of drinks is also an effective attention-getter.

...What kind of church do YOU go to???

If they'd had a no-host bar in the church I went to as a kid, all the old folks would've been fighting over "their" favorite shot glass instead of parking spaces and votive candles...


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