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US doctors call for universal healthcare

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LoveNotHate
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07 May 2016, 2:32 pm

Adamantium wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Also, maybe someone can explain ... in the "Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act" [source 1] it states ....

"It prohibits the federal government from negotiating discounts with drug companies".

So, how can Medicare/single payer ever be better than a private insurance company negotiating lower prices for you?


The obvious answer is to change that silly law.

That's my point though.

'Single payer' would be a feeding-frenzy for special interests.

Laws/rules would be added, not removed.

xenocity wrote:
So Bush II and then Republican majority in Congress decided to come to the aid of the drug companies and let drug companies set the prices. They promised us that the drug companies would do a better job of pricing drugs and the free market would help in keeping costs down.


That is what we should expect in single payer -to think otherwise defies all evidence.

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Last edited by LoveNotHate on 07 May 2016, 3:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

LoveNotHate
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07 May 2016, 2:57 pm

GGPViper wrote:
This
There is almost universal scholarly agreement that universal single-payer health care is superior to the US-based insurance system on just about any indicator...

Those "scholars" don't appear to think much about personal freedoms.

In America, generally, we can choose our plan, choose our doctor, choose appointment day/times.

In the "single payer" model, likely, they tell you where to go, assign a doctor to you, you get the plan that everyone else has, and you get called in whenever you make it to the top of the waiting list.



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07 May 2016, 3:01 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
This
There is almost universal scholarly agreement that universal single-payer health care is superior to the US-based insurance system on just about any indicator...

Those "scholars" don't appear to think much about personal freedoms.

In America, generally, we can choose our plan, choose our doctor, choose appointment day/times.

In the "single payer" model, likely, they tell you where to go, assign a doctor to you, you get the plan that everyone else has, and you get called in whenever you make it to the top of the waiting list.


And far too many people are sh*t out of luck when it comes to catering to American individualism in medical care. That loss loss of choosing your own doctor seems to be a small price to pay in order to cover everyone.


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07 May 2016, 7:37 pm

Good points, Beneficii.

I find it interesting that out of 37 industrialized nations, only one does not have single payer/national health care. Yup, that's us. And of those, we tend to be ranked last. Sometimes, depending on metric, we also rank below one or two non-industrialized nations.

I don't think it's a question of "can" we do it; it is one of whether the people of our nation are willing to push the government forward to actually get it done. And that would mean overcoming the tremendous influence of the various corporations and entire fields of corporations on Washington. It'd have to become a main election issue and right now everyone has been primed to focus on other things heading toward November...


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08 May 2016, 4:03 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
In America, generally, we can choose our plan, choose our doctor, choose appointment day/times. In the "single payer" model, likely, they tell you where to go, assign a doctor to you, you get the plan that everyone else has, and you get called in whenever you make it to the top of the waiting list.

you must never have never belonged to a typical HMO which assigns you a doctor with very little choice on your part, very little choice in appointment times. only people with top of the line Cadillac plans [such as blue cross/shield] get the choice you describe.



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08 May 2016, 4:23 am

auntblabby wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
In America, generally, we can choose our plan, choose our doctor, choose appointment day/times. In the "single payer" model, likely, they tell you where to go, assign a doctor to you, you get the plan that everyone else has, and you get called in whenever you make it to the top of the waiting list.

you must never have never belonged to a typical HMO which assigns you a doctor with very little choice on your part, very little choice in appointment times. only people with top of the line Cadillac plans [such as blue cross/shield] get the choice you describe.


Actually, I just did a report in class about how Medicaid patients are getting the best healthcare because the top of the line insurances don't have the money to pay out. My insurance refused to pay for my inhaler because it was over $400 for a 30 day supply. The article I did the report on said respiratory medicine was the most expensive and Medicaid patients were getting the best. Someone who helps sick people for a freaking living can't get the respiratory meds they need. I instead use albuterol which is extremely cheap. Bunch of BS if you ask me.


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08 May 2016, 9:21 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
gov. health doesn't work .. so we need more gov. health care , and oh yeah , more money too!

Then the guy makes the absurd argument that if we get rid of the insurance companies that control cost -- somehow the government will be just as efficient.

Your taxes actually pay 2.5 times more per citizen for healthcare than we do in Canada and you don't even have public healthcare. The notion that private healthcare actually saves tax payers money is a myth.



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08 May 2016, 9:22 am

Edenthiel wrote:
Good points, Beneficii.

I find it interesting that out of 37 industrialized nations, only one does not have single payer/national health care. Yup, that's us. And of those, we tend to be ranked last. Sometimes, depending on metric, we also rank below one or two non-industrialized nations.

I don't think it's a question of "can" we do it; it is one of whether the people of our nation are willing to push the government forward to actually get it done. And that would mean overcoming the tremendous influence of the various corporations and entire fields of corporations on Washington. It'd have to become a main election issue and right now everyone has been primed to focus on other things heading toward November...

Watch out, you wouldn't want America to turn into a communist country like those 37 industrialized nations you speak of, especially that commie nation called Canada to your North.



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08 May 2016, 11:16 am

Noca wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
gov. health doesn't work .. so we need more gov. health care , and oh yeah , more money too!
Then the guy makes the absurd argument that if we get rid of the insurance companies that control cost -- somehow the government will be just as efficient.

The notion that private healthcare actually saves tax payers money is a myth.

It's not a myth.

As I cited above, the US gov. actually has private insurance companies negotiate better deals for them for their gov. run health care.

Noca wrote:
Your taxes actually pay 2.5 times more per citizen for healthcare than we do in Canada and you don't even have public healthcare.

Poor and middle class Americans pay much, much less in taxes than Canadians because we can get huge deductions.

This year on my first $100,000 in income I paid about 26% total tax (federal + state + Medicare + Social Security).

However, something like 45% of all Americans don't even pay any federal taxes, so their total taxes are near 0-8%.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/45-of- ... 2016-02-24

How bad are taxes on the poor and middle class in Canada?



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08 May 2016, 11:57 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Noca wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
gov. health doesn't work .. so we need more gov. health care , and oh yeah , more money too!
Then the guy makes the absurd argument that if we get rid of the insurance companies that control cost -- somehow the government will be just as efficient.

The notion that private healthcare actually saves tax payers money is a myth.

It's not a myth.

As I cited above, the US gov. actually has private insurance companies negotiate better deals for them for their gov. run health care.

Noca wrote:
Your taxes actually pay 2.5 times more per citizen for healthcare than we do in Canada and you don't even have public healthcare.

Poor and middle class Americans pay much, much less in taxes than Canadians because we can get huge deductions.

This year on my first $100,000 in income I paid about 26% total tax (federal + state + Medicare + Social Security).

However, something like 45% of all Americans don't even pay any federal taxes, so their total taxes are near 0-8%.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/45-of- ... 2016-02-24

How bad are taxes on the poor and middle class in Canada?


Higher taxes wouldn't be that bad if you actually got a butt-load of services, as people get in Canada and western Europe.


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LoveNotHate
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08 May 2016, 12:22 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Higher taxes wouldn't be that bad if you actually got a butt-load of services, as people get in Canada and western Europe.

Why?

More federal taxes means:
More gov. workers making six figures salaries, and multi-million dollar pensions with limited accountability.
Special interests directing the money to their advocacy.
Politicians using the money for their political purposes.
No one giving a hoot about how the money is spent,because it's not their money.

So, why do you think they can spend your money better than you ?



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08 May 2016, 12:38 pm

Noca wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Good points, Beneficii.

I find it interesting that out of 37 industrialized nations, only one does not have single payer/national health care. Yup, that's us. And of those, we tend to be ranked last. Sometimes, depending on metric, we also rank below one or two non-industrialized nations.

I don't think it's a question of "can" we do it; it is one of whether the people of our nation are willing to push the government forward to actually get it done. And that would mean overcoming the tremendous influence of the various corporations and entire fields of corporations on Washington. It'd have to become a main election issue and right now everyone has been primed to focus on other things heading toward November...

Watch out, you wouldn't want America to turn into a communist country like those 37 industrialized nations you speak of, especially that commie nation called Canada to your North.


We could use a wee bit more socialism and communism down here before we become a nation of Corporate People and their feedstock.


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08 May 2016, 1:28 pm

GGPViper wrote:
- How is UHC going to be funded? Bernie Sanders' plan for funding his proposal was effectively an exercise in economic illiteracy, and the US federal budget is already running a massive deficit...


This is the easy one.

If it's implemented, sanely, and sensibly. (i.e. no stupid stuff like laws banning price negotiation).
You don't have to pay for it.

Because in all other modern countries UHC costs less per capita than the current US system is costing US citizens per capita, the way I see it, it effectively pays for itself, so rather than having to find money, you'd get some change left over from what you're spending now.



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08 May 2016, 1:31 pm

nurseangela wrote:
My insurance refused to pay for my inhaler because it was over $400 for a 30 day supply.


Which drug was this?



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08 May 2016, 2:29 pm

There is almost no government control over the food industry except for making sure it is not poisoned or diseased.

Food in the US is very cheap even though it is something that everyone has to buy, or die.

If food is not being price fixed or gouged then there must be something wrong with the medical industry in particular but because food is cheap it can't be the free market's fault.

Quote:
In 1972, the federal government started restricting the supply of hospitals with certificate-of-need (followed by repeal of the Hospital Survey and Construction Act in 1974). Alaska House of Representatives member Bob Lynn argued the true motivation was "large hospitals are... trying to make money by eliminating competition" under the pretext of using monopoly profits to provide better patient care.

https://mises.org/blog/how-government-r ... -expensive



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08 May 2016, 2:41 pm

our health care system is neither healthy, caring, or even a system. it is ridiculously expensive and built to get even more ridiculously expensive on the backs of the working class who are perpetually priced out of it, and on the middle class who are deluded into thinking they are exempt from the working class woes by dint of their faux-virtue.