Autistic Man Successfully Sues Gym Who Called Him Stupid

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Campin_Cat
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29 Mar 2017, 10:27 am

League_Girl wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
This is scary. No free speech laws in the UK? In the US, we welcome free speech. Especially, when it offends people.

Just tell any staff about your disorder and if they call you dumb or stupid, etc. you can sue them but it took this guy two years to do it because he spent that time researching laws to see if he can sue and he was his own lawyer. He won a lawsuit due to discrimination and he had to prove it was discrimination and this was based on his disability. In the US the same rules apply too when suing. You have to prove.

Yeah, but----in regard to the part I have emphasized----the article wasn't clear that he had told someone at the gym that he was Autistic (and the article even said that the judgment said that the company "do consider amending its joining application form so non-physical conditions are included"; so, that tells me that it wasn't on there, before). I read-back through it, to look for that (if he had told someone), because, IMO, that would've, then, justified his lawsuit (with only the information provided in the article, I don't feel it was justified). One can't always just look at someone, and tell they're Autistic----that's, usually, decided by speaking with them or their actions.

Also----and nobody likes when someone says this----IMO, too many Autistics think they should be given special treatment, because of their oh-so-terrible disorder, and I feel that should ONLY be reserved for those more impaired (the article said he worked as an Administrator; so, I'm thinking he's NOT THAT impaired).

When someone wants to be socially acceptable, they must do socially acceptable things----if they REFUSE to conform, then they have no one to blame, but themselves (besides, how do we know he wasn't the type that complained, often, about things----again, cuz he thought he should get special treatment).

I don't feel he won his lawsuit "due to discrimination", because, IMO, one has to KNOW what they're speaking against, for it to be considered discrimination (and, as I said, it doesn't say in the article that he told anyone he was Autistic). Since we only have the article to go-on, I feel he won his lawsuit because-of what I call "The Awww Factor"----people said "Awww, look----he's an Autistic person, we should feel sorry for him"----and, that's TOTAL HORSE-HOCKEY, IMO!!

Bottom Line, for ME, is: They BOTH acted overly-defensively----like the instructor saying: "
Don’t tell me how to do my job"----and, the complainant bringing the lawsuit (the article said he was gonna prove that he wasn't stupid by representing himself, and IME, people who do that, are hoping that, by proving to others that they're not stupid, they'll believe it, themselves [very common amongst us, ASDers----and, understandable, as we often feel "stupid", and we wanna quit feeling that way (I've done it myself, back when I was a kid)]). IMO, there's sooooo many more, possible variables----like, what if the instructor just didn't like the guy cuz he felt the guy was better looking, or something (it said the instructor was male), so he was being defensive, because of that; and, what if the guy brought a lawsuit, cuz he was sick-and-tired of people not treating him special, like Mommy and Daddy do (and, if THAT'S the reason----and, because the article said he was 30----then, IMO, that's PATHETIC!!).





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Campin_Cat
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29 Mar 2017, 10:36 am

AspieUtah wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Calling someone "stupid" is opinion, not slander. Opinion is free speech. Now if he said "Your IQ is below 50", then it would be an factually incorrect statement, not mere opinion, and possibly slander.

Yes, it is his opinion, but it was also intentionally malicious. According to Black's Law Dictionary, slander is "the speaking of false and malicious words concerning another, whereby injury results to his reputation" ( http://thelawdictionary.org/slander/ ). When the individual in question spoke words that were false, malicious and injurious, he committed slander. Slander is actionable in court.

Yeah, but IMO, one would have to KNOW what they were saying, was "false", for it to be "malicious"----and, IMO, the only reason why the complainant felt it was injurious was because his feelings got hurt, and / or, his ego was bruised.

Also, you guys are applying U.S. law, to a U.K. case.





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AspieUtah
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29 Mar 2017, 10:50 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Calling someone "stupid" is opinion, not slander. Opinion is free speech. Now if he said "Your IQ is below 50", then it would be an factually incorrect statement, not mere opinion, and possibly slander.

Yes, it is his opinion, but it was also intentionally malicious. According to Black's Law Dictionary, slander is "the speaking of false and malicious words concerning another, whereby injury results to his reputation" ( http://thelawdictionary.org/slander/ ). When the individual in question spoke words that were false, malicious and injurious, he committed slander. Slander is actionable in court.

Yeah, but IMO, one would have to KNOW what they were saying, was "false", for it to be "malicious"----and, IMO, the only reason why the complainant felt it was injurious was because his feelings got hurt, and / or, his ego was bruised.

Also, you guys are applying U.S. law, to a U.K. case.

Hm. That is the "absence of malice" defense. It seldom works because the "average-individual" standard usually presumes intent to ridicule or humiliate, at least. That the victim felt hurt or his ego bruised suggests an injurious result, doesn't it? If so, the components are all there to rely on slander. Now, if the employee had phrased his statement as something similar to "I believe you are being stupid," then the First Amendment Right of Free Speech protection would apply. But, stating an opinion as fact, doesn't hold water.


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AspieUtah
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29 Mar 2017, 11:07 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
...you guys are applying U.S. law, to a U.K. case.

U.K. law ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law ) appears to conform generally with what I have stated here.

This ( https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your- ... rimination ) discusses the matter of actionable discrimination in the United Kingdom. The Equality Act of 2010 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_Act_2010 ) is the equivalent of the Americans With Disability Act of 1990. So, an act of slander in the United Kingdom would be similar to an act of slander in the United States.


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Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)


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29 Mar 2017, 11:26 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
He won a lawsuit due to discrimination and he had to prove it was discrimination and this was based on his disability.

Discrimination is an action.

What discriminatory act took place?



One of the members there said the music was too slow and unmotivating. The autistic man agreed and the instructor called him stupid but not the other person. He only called him stupid, not both of them.


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League_Girl
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29 Mar 2017, 11:38 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
This is scary. No free speech laws in the UK? In the US, we welcome free speech. Especially, when it offends people.

Just tell any staff about your disorder and if they call you dumb or stupid, etc. you can sue them but it took this guy two years to do it because he spent that time researching laws to see if he can sue and he was his own lawyer. He won a lawsuit due to discrimination and he had to prove it was discrimination and this was based on his disability. In the US the same rules apply too when suing. You have to prove.

Yeah, but----in regard to the part I have emphasized----the article wasn't clear that he had told someone at the gym that he was Autistic (and the article even said that the judgment said that the company "do consider amending its joining application form so non-physical conditions are included"; so, that tells me that it wasn't on there, before). I read-back through it, to look for that (if he had told someone), because, IMO, that would've, then, justified his lawsuit (with only the information provided in the article, I don't feel it was justified). One can't always just look at someone, and tell they're Autistic----that's, usually, decided by speaking with them or their actions.

Also----and nobody likes when someone says this----IMO, too many Autistics think they should be given special treatment, because of their oh-so-terrible disorder, and I feel that should ONLY be reserved for those more impaired (the article said he worked as an Administrator; so, I'm thinking he's NOT THAT impaired).

When someone wants to be socially acceptable, they must do socially acceptable things----if they REFUSE to conform, then they have no one to blame, but themselves (besides, how do we know he wasn't the type that complained, often, about things----again, cuz he thought he should get special treatment).

I don't feel he won his lawsuit "due to discrimination", because, IMO, one has to KNOW what they're speaking against, for it to be considered discrimination (and, as I said, it doesn't say in the article that he told anyone he was Autistic). Since we only have the article to go-on, I feel he won his lawsuit because-of what I call "The Awww Factor"----people said "Awww, look----he's an Autistic person, we should feel sorry for him"----and, that's TOTAL HORSE-HOCKEY, IMO!!

Bottom Line, for ME, is: They BOTH acted overly-defensively----like the instructor saying: "
Don’t tell me how to do my job"----and, the complainant bringing the lawsuit (the article said he was gonna prove that he wasn't stupid by representing himself, and IME, people who do that, are hoping that, by proving to others that they're not stupid, they'll believe it, themselves [very common amongst us, ASDers----and, understandable, as we often feel "stupid", and we wanna quit feeling that way (I've done it myself, back when I was a kid)]). IMO, there's sooooo many more, possible variables----like, what if the instructor just didn't like the guy cuz he felt the guy was better looking, or something (it said the instructor was male), so he was being defensive, because of that; and, what if the guy brought a lawsuit, cuz he was sick-and-tired of people not treating him special, like Mommy and Daddy do (and, if THAT'S the reason----and, because the article said he was 30----then, IMO, that's PATHETIC!!).



And I thought I had missed it when someone told me in the other thread he told staff about his autism.

Yes I do agree that some people on the spectrum do use their autism as an excuse or assume something happened because of their autism. I think that comes from after years of being singled out and judged because of their disability so now they are paranoid when someone insults them. That instructor could have just been an a**hole and maybe he didn't hear what the other person had said and he only heard the guy. But no one should be called stupid because that was very unprofessional. I would have just complained to management, not because I would be butt hurt but because that is not how he should be treating members and it's a business so they want to make money so if their staff is going to be treating people poorly, it will cost them their business.


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AspieUtah
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29 Mar 2017, 11:47 am

League_Girl wrote:
...no one should be called stupid because that was very unprofessional....

Indeed. But, it has become exceedingly difficult to get the attention of decision makers at mega-corporations like Virgin. As a result, any worker who doesn't know the slogan "the customer is always right" is doomed to running afoul of policy and law regardless of how much the worker blames a lack of complete corporate instruction.

I always try to look for creative ways to get the attention of corporate leaders and remind them that they are losing cash when they support (or fail to dissuade) bad behaviors.


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29 Mar 2017, 3:54 pm

Screwing the gym for time, money, and concern, is an act of hatred, not that I'm complaining.

A more-creative solution would be to open an AS-friendly establishment.



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29 Mar 2017, 4:05 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
Screwing the gym for time, money, and concern, is an act of hatred, not that I'm complaining.

A more-creative solution would be to open an AS-friendly establishment.

I agree that would be a better way to resolve the matter. Unfortunately, too many businesses these days are unable to see how being nicer to customers is the best way to avoid legal conflicts.


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29 Mar 2017, 5:11 pm

There used to be a principle, called the 'dignity of labor,' in which the employee or subordinate is afforded all the responsibility and resources, which he needs, to do his job well.

If the customer was being too audacious, 'the help' could have addressed that, more formally.



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29 Mar 2017, 8:01 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
That the victim felt hurt or his ego bruised suggests an injurious result, doesn't it?

No, not in MY book. If, when a person goes-in to get their left leg chopped-off, and the doctor chops-off the RIGHT one, THAT'S "injurious", IMO. And, please don't come-back with "that's malpractice"----you know what I mean. (wink) Because someone gets their ickle feelings hurt, is no reason to sue, IMO----unfortunately, people who sue, don't see it that way, and they think EVERYONE should kowtow to 'em.





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29 Mar 2017, 8:07 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
...you guys are applying U.S. law, to a U.K. case.

U.K. law ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law ) appears to conform generally with what I have stated here.

This ( https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your- ... rimination ) discusses the matter of actionable discrimination in the United Kingdom. The Equality Act of 2010 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_Act_2010 ) is the equivalent of the Americans With Disability Act of 1990. So, an act of slander in the United Kingdom would be similar to an act of slander in the United States.

Okey-dokey----I'm comfortable taking your word, for it (that's not sarcasm----I know you know me, better than that; but, if I don't say it, somebody'll come-along and say something).




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29 Mar 2017, 8:18 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:

And I thought I had missed it when someone told me in the other thread he told staff about his autism.

Yes I do agree that some people on the spectrum do use their autism as an excuse or assume something happened because of their autism. I think that comes from after years of being singled out and judged because of their disability so now they are paranoid when someone insults them. That instructor could have just been an as*hole and maybe he didn't hear what the other person had said and he only heard the guy. But no one should be called stupid because that was very unprofessional. I would have just complained to management, not because I would be butt hurt but because that is not how he should be treating members and it's a business so they want to make money so if their staff is going to be treating people poorly, it will cost them their business.

Yeah, I agree----except for the part about "what the other person had said" and "I would have just complained to management", because there was no "other person", and he did complain to management, and they didn't do anything about it.




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29 Mar 2017, 10:29 pm

What do you mean there was no other person? She said the music was too slow and unmotivating and the autisuc man agreed with her. The instructor heard him and called him stupid.


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30 Mar 2017, 5:28 am

AspieUtah wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
...you guys are applying U.S. law, to a U.K. case.

U.K. law ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law ) appears to conform generally with what I have stated here.

This ( https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your- ... rimination ) discusses the matter of actionable discrimination in the United Kingdom. The Equality Act of 2010 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_Act_2010 ) is the equivalent of the Americans With Disability Act of 1990. So, an act of slander in the United Kingdom would be similar to an act of slander in the United States.

"That which is name-calling, hyperbole, or, however characterized, cannot be proven true or false, cannot be the subject of a libel or slander claim".
http://www.medialaw.org/topics-page/defamation-faqs

Clearly, in the US, name-calling is not slander and it's not discrimination.



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30 Mar 2017, 12:31 pm

Quote:
She said the music was too slow and unmotivating and the autisuc man agreed with her. The instructor heard him and called him stupid.


No offense to present company, but these are arguments, which young kids might have. These are overgrown children, who have the right to leverage legal consequences.