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Jacoby
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04 Jun 2017, 6:02 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I wonder how bad it will have to get before the PC crowd realizes there really is a problem. Of course if it was Russians doing this, they would want every measure put into place asap instead of fighting so hard against it.


Its likely the killers are Brits...what are they going to do? close down the local mosques?


If they're preaching extremists filth then yeah, I've heard the idea that they should lock up thousands of potential jihadis in internment camps like they did in Northern Ireland.



Drake
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04 Jun 2017, 6:51 am

To the scared ones, please get a grip. I don't want to be harsh, but terrorism is made out to be a much, much bigger deal than it actually is, because every single attack and death dominates the news.

Two weeks ago at least one person died just down my street. I only know this, and only came to know this on Thursday because I walked past the police sign asking for witnesses and I only know there's at least one death because of all the flowers laid there. I don't know if this was two vehicles colliding, or someone being hit on the pavement. I don't know if one person or more died. I don't know who the victim/s are. I don't know if it was accidental or on purpose. I wouldn't have known at all that it happened right on my street if I hadn't seen the sign. But I'm not scared to walk that street after seeing that. And I know people die in droves every day to vehicle incidents. People I know have been hit by vehicles (thankfully no deaths). But it doesn't make me scared to walk the streets. The media do the terrorists' work for them far more effectively than they could ever dream of without the media's help. They're a drop in the cause of death ocean. Don't make it so easy for them.



BirdInFlight
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04 Jun 2017, 7:16 am

Do not tell me or anyone to "get a grip."

AND DO NOT interpret anything people say on this thread as "fear."

You don't even know me. I'm ANGRY more than anything, and SICK AND TIRED of MY innocent people being killed. Thats the bottom line for me.

I am not going to change anything I do, but IT IS F--CKING SCARY TO BE LIVING IN A MAJOR CITY knowing jihadist views are among us.

I LIVE IN LONDON.

Where do YOU live? Boisie? Podunk? Smalltown, Illinois?

Don't judge how others feel about something unless you live in the places that ARE getting attacked on a repeated basis



I do live in one of those places.

I just learned that one of the attackers live a short walk away from my friend's house.

A jihadist group is known to have held meetings a mile from my house.

One of the lone wolf knife attacks a while ago took place in my local tube station fifteen minutes after I WAS THERE.

So don't even GO THERE telling ME what to feel or to get a grip.

People win the lottery. People get stuck by lightning. Throwing statistics at people doesn't help when you happen to be the lucky one who got your throat slashed just for having a beer on a Saturday night.

It's not fear of likelihood -- it's an appropriate reasonable sense that we ARE dealing with an entire CLIMATE right here among us.

I am NOT going to to engage with people like YOU who want to tell people to get a grip.

I HAVE a "grip." I'm not fearful I am sick and tired and ANGRY -- I''m defiant but I DO realize I live in a f****d up place.

WE HAVE A REAL PROBLEM in the very climate of our city and out country here. It's not "fear" to acknowledge there is an issue we need to get on top of and IT IS a big issue.

You are trivializing this larger picture of the climate of this situation.



Jacoby
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04 Jun 2017, 7:31 am

Image



Scorpius14
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04 Jun 2017, 7:43 am

There isn't much going on in my life so it's interesting to have something happen for a change, i'm more relaxed because they seem to be attacking more populated areas which I steer clear of anyway and it being in a city I just make the excuse that they are more fortunate than I am and are able to afford the medical care. I would consider unemployment to be a far torturous and enduring thing than terrorism as my mind is too numb to even care about these attacks even though this attack was only an hour away.

Alot of crimes take place in the city anyway, most, not even national news, wouldn't bother with covering them. It's only because it was done in a very public place, unlike the famous robbery which didn't get coverage until they realised it was robbed.



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04 Jun 2017, 8:16 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I wonder how bad it will have to get before the PC crowd realizes there really is a problem. Of course if it was Russians doing this, they would want every measure put into place asap instead of fighting so hard against it.


Its likely the killers are Brits...what are they going to do? close down the local mosques?


If you're interested, look up Channel 4's Dispatches programme "Undercover Mosque". It's in the same town I used to live.


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04 Jun 2017, 9:40 am

Jacoby wrote:
Image


We must start killing the Saudi Royal family, the Qatar Royal family and the Wahhabi indoctrination schools they finance instead of further enriching them with arms deals. Until we do that we will continue to be dealing with symptoms, not the root cause of radical Islamic terrorism.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 04 Jun 2017, 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tollorin
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04 Jun 2017, 10:05 am

BirdInFlight wrote:
Do not tell me or anyone to "get a grip."

AND DO NOT interpret anything people say on this thread as "fear."

You don't even f*****g know me. I'm ANGRY more than anything, and SICK AND TIRED of MY innocent people being killed. Thats the bottom line for me.

I am not going to change anything I do, but IT IS F--CKING SCARY TO BE LIVING IN A MAJOR CITY knowing jihadist views are among us.

I LIVE IN LONDON.

Where do YOU live? Boisie? Podunk? Smalltown, Illinois?

Don't f*****g judge how others feel about something unless you live in the places that ARE getting attacked on a repeated basis



I do live in one of those places.

I just learned that one of the attackers live a short walk away from my friend's house.

A jihadist group is known to have held meetings a mile from my house.

One of the lone wolf knife attacks a while ago took place in my local tube station fifteen minutes after I WAS THERE.

So don't even GO THERE telling ME what to feel or to get a grip.

People win the lottery. People get stuck by lightning. Throwing statistics at people doesn't help when you happen to be the lucky one who got your throat slashed just for having a beer on a Saturday night.

It's not fear of likelihood -- it's an appropriate reasonable sense that we ARE dealing with an entire CLIMATE right here among us.

I am NOT going to to engage with people like YOU who want to tell people to get a grip.

I HAVE a "grip." I'm not fearful I am sick and tired and ANGRY -- I''m defiant but I DO realize I live in a f****d up place.

WE HAVE A REAL PROBLEM in the very climate of our city and out country here. It's not "fear" to acknowledge there is an issue we need to get on top of and IT IS a big issue.

You are trivializing this larger picture of the climate of this situation.

Let's put things in perspective...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz

Quote:
Probably the most devastating strike occurred on the evening of 29 December, when German aircraft attacked the City of London itself with incendiary and high explosive bombs, causing a firestorm that has been called the Second Great Fire of London.[135] The first group to use these incendiaries was Kampfgruppe 100 which despatched 10 "pathfinder" He 111s. At 18:17, it released the first of 10,000 fire bombs, eventually amounting to 300 dropped per minute.[136] Altogether, 130 German bombers destroyed the historical centre of London.[137] Civilian casualties on London throughout the Blitz amounted to 28,556 killed, and 25,578 wounded. The Luftwaffe had dropped 18,291 short tons (16,593 t) of bombs.[138]

Not all of the Luftwaffe effort was made against inland cities. Port cities were also attacked to try to disrupt trade and sea communications. In January Swansea was bombed four times, very heavily. On 17 January around 100 bombers dropped a high concentration of incendiaries, some 32,000 in all. The main damage was inflicted on the commercial and domestic areas. Four days later 230 tons was dropped including 60,000 incendiaries. In Portsmouth Southsea and Gosport waves of 150 bombers destroyed vast swaths of the city with 40,000 incendiaries. Warehouses, rail lines and houses were destroyed and damaged, but the docks were largely untouched.[139] In January and February 1941, Luftwaffe serviceability rates declined, until just 551 of 1,214 bombers were combat worthy. Seven major and eight heavy attacks were flown, but the weather made it difficult to keep up the pressure. Still, at Southampton, attacks were so effective morale did give way briefly with civilian authorities leading people en masse out of the city.[134]


Quote:
No collapse of morale

Although the intensity of the bombing was not as great as prewar expectations so an equal comparison is impossible, no psychiatric crisis occurred because of the Blitz even during the period of greatest bombing of September 1940. An American witness wrote "By every test and measure I am able to apply, these people are staunch to the bone and won't quit ... the British are stronger and in a better position than they were at its beginning". People referred to raids as if they were weather, stating that a day was "very blitzy".[65]

According to Anna Freud and Edward Glover, London civilians surprisingly did not suffer from widespread shell shock, unlike the soldiers in the Dunkirk evacuation.[66] The psychoanalysts were correct, and the special network of psychiatric clinics opened to receive mental casualties of the attacks closed due to lack of need. Although the stress of the war resulted in many anxiety attacks, eating disorders, fatigue, weeping, miscarriages, and other physical and mental ailments, society did not collapse. The number of suicides and drunkenness declined, and London recorded only about two cases of "bomb neuroses" per week in the first three months of bombing. Many civilians found that the best way to retain mental stability was to be with family, and after the first few weeks of bombing avoidance of the evacuation programs grew.[67][68][69]
The cheerful crowds visiting bomb sites were so large they interfered with rescue work,[64] pub visits increased in number (beer was never rationed), and 13,000 attended cricket at Lord's. People left shelters when told instead of refusing to leave, although many housewives reportedly enjoyed the break from housework. Some people even told government surveyors that they enjoyed air raids if they occurred occasionally, perhaps once a week. Despite the attacks, defeat in Norway and France, and the threat of invasion, overall morale remained high; a Gallup poll found only 3% of Britons expected to lose the war in May 1940, another found an 88% approval rating for Churchill in July, and a third found 89% support for his leadership in October. Support for peace negotiations declined from 29% in February. Each setback caused more civilians to volunteer to become unpaid Local Defence Volunteers, workers worked longer shifts and over weekends, contributions rose to the £5,000 "Spitfire Funds" to build fighters, and the number of work days lost to strikes in 1940 was the lowest in history.[70]


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Tollorin
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04 Jun 2017, 10:14 am

Jacoby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I wonder how bad it will have to get before the PC crowd realizes there really is a problem. Of course if it was Russians doing this, they would want every measure put into place asap instead of fighting so hard against it.


Its likely the killers are Brits...what are they going to do? close down the local mosques?


If they're preaching extremists filth then yeah, I've heard the idea that they should lock up thousands of potential jihadis in internment camps like they did in Northern Ireland.

Which is why I fear more the reactions to the terrorists attacks from conservatives and some so-called libertarians, that the terrorists attacks themselves.


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androbot01
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04 Jun 2017, 10:20 am

National Post: ‘Enough is enough’: Theresa May says tougher measures needed to clamp down on Islamic extremism

Quote:
“They are bound together by the single evil ideology of Islamist extremism that preaches hatred, sows division, and promotes sectarianism,” she said. “It is an ideology that claims our Western values and freedom, democracy and human rights are incompatible with the religion of Islam.”

“While we have made significant progress in recent years, there is – to be frank – far too much tolerance of extremism in our country. So we need to become far more robust in identifying it and stamping it out across the public sector and across society,” May said.

“That will require some difficult, and often embarrassing, conversations. But the whole of our country needs to come together to take on this extremism, and we need to live our lives not in a series of separated, segregated communities, but as one truly United Kingdom.”

“Perpetrators are inspired to attack, not only on the basis of carefully-constructed plots after years of planning and training, and not even as lone attackers radicalized online, but by copying one another and often using the crudest means of attack,” May told reporters on Sunday after chairing a meeting of the government’s emergency COBRA committee. “We cannot and must not pretend that things can continue as they are.”


Nice to see her take a tough stance.



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04 Jun 2017, 10:53 am

Tollorin wrote:
BirdInFlight wrote:
Do not tell me or anyone to "get a grip."

AND DO NOT interpret anything people say on this thread as "fear."

You don't even f*****g know me. I'm ANGRY more than anything, and SICK AND TIRED of MY innocent people being killed. Thats the bottom line for me.

I am not going to change anything I do, but IT IS F--CKING SCARY TO BE LIVING IN A MAJOR CITY knowing jihadist views are among us.

I LIVE IN LONDON.

Where do YOU live? Boisie? Podunk? Smalltown, Illinois?

Don't f*****g judge how others feel about something unless you live in the places that ARE getting attacked on a repeated basis



I do live in one of those places.

I just learned that one of the attackers live a short walk away from my friend's house.

A jihadist group is known to have held meetings a mile from my house.

One of the lone wolf knife attacks a while ago took place in my local tube station fifteen minutes after I WAS THERE.

So don't even GO THERE telling ME what to feel or to get a grip.

People win the lottery. People get stuck by lightning. Throwing statistics at people doesn't help when you happen to be the lucky one who got your throat slashed just for having a beer on a Saturday night.

It's not fear of likelihood -- it's an appropriate reasonable sense that we ARE dealing with an entire CLIMATE right here among us.

I am NOT going to to engage with people like YOU who want to tell people to get a grip.

I HAVE a "grip." I'm not fearful I am sick and tired and ANGRY -- I''m defiant but I DO realize I live in a f****d up place.

WE HAVE A REAL PROBLEM in the very climate of our city and out country here. It's not "fear" to acknowledge there is an issue we need to get on top of and IT IS a big issue.

You are trivializing this larger picture of the climate of this situation.

Let's put things in perspective...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz

Quote:
Probably the most devastating strike occurred on the evening of 29 December, when German aircraft attacked the City of London itself with incendiary and high explosive bombs, causing a firestorm that has been called the Second Great Fire of London.[135] The first group to use these incendiaries was Kampfgruppe 100 which despatched 10 "pathfinder" He 111s. At 18:17, it released the first of 10,000 fire bombs, eventually amounting to 300 dropped per minute.[136] Altogether, 130 German bombers destroyed the historical centre of London.[137] Civilian casualties on London throughout the Blitz amounted to 28,556 killed, and 25,578 wounded. The Luftwaffe had dropped 18,291 short tons (16,593 t) of bombs.[138]

Not all of the Luftwaffe effort was made against inland cities. Port cities were also attacked to try to disrupt trade and sea communications. In January Swansea was bombed four times, very heavily. On 17 January around 100 bombers dropped a high concentration of incendiaries, some 32,000 in all. The main damage was inflicted on the commercial and domestic areas. Four days later 230 tons was dropped including 60,000 incendiaries. In Portsmouth Southsea and Gosport waves of 150 bombers destroyed vast swaths of the city with 40,000 incendiaries. Warehouses, rail lines and houses were destroyed and damaged, but the docks were largely untouched.[139] In January and February 1941, Luftwaffe serviceability rates declined, until just 551 of 1,214 bombers were combat worthy. Seven major and eight heavy attacks were flown, but the weather made it difficult to keep up the pressure. Still, at Southampton, attacks were so effective morale did give way briefly with civilian authorities leading people en masse out of the city.[134]


Quote:
No collapse of morale

Although the intensity of the bombing was not as great as prewar expectations so an equal comparison is impossible, no psychiatric crisis occurred because of the Blitz even during the period of greatest bombing of September 1940. An American witness wrote "By every test and measure I am able to apply, these people are staunch to the bone and won't quit ... the British are stronger and in a better position than they were at its beginning". People referred to raids as if they were weather, stating that a day was "very blitzy".[65]

According to Anna Freud and Edward Glover, London civilians surprisingly did not suffer from widespread shell shock, unlike the soldiers in the Dunkirk evacuation.[66] The psychoanalysts were correct, and the special network of psychiatric clinics opened to receive mental casualties of the attacks closed due to lack of need. Although the stress of the war resulted in many anxiety attacks, eating disorders, fatigue, weeping, miscarriages, and other physical and mental ailments, society did not collapse. The number of suicides and drunkenness declined, and London recorded only about two cases of "bomb neuroses" per week in the first three months of bombing. Many civilians found that the best way to retain mental stability was to be with family, and after the first few weeks of bombing avoidance of the evacuation programs grew.[67][68][69]
The cheerful crowds visiting bomb sites were so large they interfered with rescue work,[64] pub visits increased in number (beer was never rationed), and 13,000 attended cricket at Lord's. People left shelters when told instead of refusing to leave, although many housewives reportedly enjoyed the break from housework. Some people even told government surveyors that they enjoyed air raids if they occurred occasionally, perhaps once a week. Despite the attacks, defeat in Norway and France, and the threat of invasion, overall morale remained high; a Gallup poll found only 3% of Britons expected to lose the war in May 1940, another found an 88% approval rating for Churchill in July, and a third found 89% support for his leadership in October. Support for peace negotiations declined from 29% in February. Each setback caused more civilians to volunteer to become unpaid Local Defence Volunteers, workers worked longer shifts and over weekends, contributions rose to the £5,000 "Spitfire Funds" to build fighters, and the number of work days lost to strikes in 1940 was the lowest in history.[70]


It is not easy where to draw the line between one one hand between giving into the fear and having terrorists dictate how we live, making us compromise our values for safety and the other hand stubbornly burying our heads in the sand and pretending there is nothing amiss.

After 9/11 occurred in this area I looked towereds how the British reacted during the blitz as an example of how it should be done. Both 9/11 and the blitz were largely externally directed. While this round of terrorism is killing far less people there is a large internal component making it scarier. It has been often been the children of immigrants who did become-contributing members of thier new countries.

In the 60's and 70's we had a lot of bombings albeit on a much smaller scale, rampent crime and psychos doing crazy s**t. We did not have lockdowns where whole sections of cities were shut down for days, shelter in place orders, invasive police searchers etc. It was just understood living life entails risks. We're encouraging not only hard core terrorists but every egomaniac sadist who gets off on causing fear.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 04 Jun 2017, 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

androbot01
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04 Jun 2017, 10:55 am

Trump has yet to release a formal statement, but he has been tweeting about it:

Washington Post: With his London tweets, Trump embarrasses himself — and America — once again

Quote:
..this is vintage Trump — impulsive and cruel, without an ounce of class or human decency. His behavior no longer surprises us, but it should offend and disturb us, first, that he remains the face and voice of America in the world and, second, that his fans hoot and holler, seeing this as inconsequential or acceptable conduct. We wound up with this president because millions of Republicans could not prioritize character, decency and overall fitness to serve ...



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04 Jun 2017, 11:13 am

The tweets are somewhat embarrassing, kissing the Saudis butt, playing with thier orb and basically continuting what every American president has done for the last 50 years is completly humiliating to me as an American.


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04 Jun 2017, 11:19 am

Jacoby wrote:
Image


In the bottom tweet the President said the same thing I did in my last post... how cool is that?



androbot01
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04 Jun 2017, 11:35 am

So are you admitting you are Trump's sockpuppet. :P



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