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R.I.P. Stormfront 1996-2017

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DarthMetaKnight
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28 Aug 2017, 8:25 pm

Chronos wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
Why should we care if hateful people say hateful things? To me the bet way to deal with bigots is ignore them. Let them do their thing and the rest of us live real lives.


Because hateful words can turn into hateful actions.

Though to some degree I do agree bigots should be ignored in the instances where they represent a small, fringe group for whom not ignoring would serve to give them publicity and a platform which they can use to spread their hate and attract people to their cause.

Yes.

If we ignore racist bigots, they will continue to spread their hate everywhere.


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BettaPonic
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28 Aug 2017, 8:28 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Chronos wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
Why should we care if hateful people say hateful things? To me the bet way to deal with bigots is ignore them. Let them do their thing and the rest of us live real lives.


Because hateful words can turn into hateful actions.

Though to some degree I do agree bigots should be ignored in the instances where they represent a small, fringe group for whom not ignoring would serve to give them publicity and a platform which they can use to spread their hate and attract people to their cause.

Yes.

If we ignore racist bigots, they will continue to spread their hate everywhere.

What is the problem with that? They spread their lies and people respond to it. Discussing and debating bigots stop them.



DarthMetaKnight
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28 Aug 2017, 8:42 pm

BettaPonic wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Chronos wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
Why should we care if hateful people say hateful things? To me the bet way to deal with bigots is ignore them. Let them do their thing and the rest of us live real lives.


Because hateful words can turn into hateful actions.

Though to some degree I do agree bigots should be ignored in the instances where they represent a small, fringe group for whom not ignoring would serve to give them publicity and a platform which they can use to spread their hate and attract people to their cause.

Yes.

If we ignore racist bigots, they will continue to spread their hate everywhere.

What is the problem with that? They spread their lies and people respond to it. Discussing and debating bigots stop them.


That sounds rather naïve.

Remember what happened in Charlottesville? That was largely a product of online racism.

You can't always debate racists. They usually keep going even when they have been proven wrong because they don't listen to reason.

That's why most websites will ban you for overt racism. If racists were reasonable, that sort of moderation wouldn't exist. It would be unnecessary.


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BettaPonic
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28 Aug 2017, 9:02 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Chronos wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
Why should we care if hateful people say hateful things? To me the bet way to deal with bigots is ignore them. Let them do their thing and the rest of us live real lives.


Because hateful words can turn into hateful actions.

Though to some degree I do agree bigots should be ignored in the instances where they represent a small, fringe group for whom not ignoring would serve to give them publicity and a platform which they can use to spread their hate and attract people to their cause.

Yes.

If we ignore racist bigots, they will continue to spread their hate everywhere.

What is the problem with that? They spread their lies and people respond to it. Discussing and debating bigots stop them.


That sounds rather naïve.

Remember what happened in Charlottesville? That was largely a product of online racism.

You can't always debate racists. They usually keep going even when they have been proven wrong because they don't listen to reason.

That's why most websites will ban you for overt racism. If racists were reasonable, that sort of moderation wouldn't exist. It would be unnecessary.

I fully support a website deciding that bigoted speech won't be tolerated. I am talking about them making their own platform. The nazis weren't the only ones who wanted a fight. Both sides wanted a fight. To me bigoted speech doesn't matter. These are pathetic people. If I ran a webpage bigots on both sides would be tolerated.



EzraS
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28 Aug 2017, 9:22 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
^^^ You have a nice first name.

My first name is drab.....Don.


Cool. I like knowing people's names. Also I can never remember how to spell yours or Bill's user name.

Ironically my real first name is Fluxmulicalcalianschlx.



kraftiekortie
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28 Aug 2017, 9:25 pm

That's worse than a Polish last name in spelling.

Polish last names are actually easy to pronounce LOL



DarthMetaKnight
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28 Aug 2017, 9:36 pm

BettaPonic wrote:
If I ran a webpage bigots on both sides would be tolerated.


That's what 4chan's /pol/ board is like.

When all sorts of extremists are allowed to congregate in one area, the right-wing extremists usually seize control. Everyone else usually leaves in disgust.

This is because right-wingers rely on emotional manipulation, "common sense" and simplistic explanations for complex problems. Most people have a short attention span ... too short to handle complex truths. Right-wingers consistently take advantage of this.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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28 Aug 2017, 10:03 pm

BettaPonic wrote:
Why should we care if hateful people say hateful things? To me the bet way to deal with bigots is ignore them. Let them do their thing and the rest of us live real lives.

Because saying hateful things is a buildup to doing hateful things.
:arrow:
Quote:
"We drove around all pumped up and started talking about what a race war would be like in the US," she says.

"We talked about how it was okay to hurt people who aren't like us and we decided to go and find a place to rob."

They settled on a convenience store, but farcically it had closed while they argued about who should go in. They eventually targeted an adult video shop, reasoning that pornography "wasn't beneficial to the white race".

"One of the guys went in and pistol-whipped the clerk before stealing money from the register," King says. The clerk was Jewish.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40779377


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DarthMetaKnight
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28 Aug 2017, 10:12 pm

Quote:
They settled on a convenience store, but farcically it had closed while they argued about who should go in. They eventually targeted an adult video shop, reasoning that pornography "wasn't beneficial to the white race".


I guess Nazis don't like porn unless it has anime lolis in it.

Image


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BettaPonic
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29 Aug 2017, 2:05 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
Why should we care if hateful people say hateful things? To me the bet way to deal with bigots is ignore them. Let them do their thing and the rest of us live real lives.

Because saying hateful things is a buildup to doing hateful things.
:arrow:
Quote:
"We drove around all pumped up and started talking about what a race war would be like in the US," she says.

"We talked about how it was okay to hurt people who aren't like us and we decided to go and find a place to rob."

They settled on a convenience store, but farcically it had closed while they argued about who should go in. They eventually targeted an adult video shop, reasoning that pornography "wasn't beneficial to the white race".

"One of the guys went in and pistol-whipped the clerk before stealing money from the register," King says. The clerk was Jewish.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40779377

I disagree saying hateful things is a lead up. I think kicking them up from their rocks puts them in the world.



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29 Aug 2017, 2:10 pm

BettaPonic wrote:
Chronos wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
Why should we care if hateful people say hateful things? To me the bet way to deal with bigots is ignore them. Let them do their thing and the rest of us live real lives.


Because hateful words can turn into hateful actions.

Though to some degree I do agree bigots should be ignored in the instances where they represent a small, fringe group for whom not ignoring would serve to give them publicity and a platform which they can use to spread their hate and attract people to their cause.

I still believe anyone should be able to spread there ideas. I personally would not censor hateful opinions. I agree companies and websites have a right to block them. I just wouldn't. Censoring opinions to me is more likely to lead to violence. When people feel oppressed they get violent.


Well if you feel oppressed because you can't promote genocide or scream about the inferiority of ethnic minorities, gay people, ect wherever and whenever you want YOU'RE WRONG!


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29 Aug 2017, 2:17 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sure, Stormfront might resurface under a new name, or join the pedophiles, Islamist terrorists, and drug dealers on the dark web, but at the very least they've been given notice that their lives have just been made uncomfortable, and that they may very well expect this to happen to them from now on.


Yeah they can have all the freedom of speech in the world....

However they are not protected from sabotaging themselves with it and gaining extreme public disapproval and such. Freedom of speech also means people who disagree with disgusting nazis don't have to host their websites, and businesses don't have to hire nazi employees.


Absolutely.


And people don't have to respect their protest/march things. I understand it is still illegal to attack them as the right to assemble applies. But I see nothing wrong with people forming counter protests and yelling at the nazis for instance...I don't think they should get to march around with the illusion that people might be ok with it they need to see the anger of people at them for their disgusting life choice.


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29 Aug 2017, 2:20 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2017/08/27/stormfront_has_been_kicked_offline.html

Well ... Stormfront is finally dead.

... and nothing of value was lost.


True. But I'm still not for censorship so long as they are not directly advocating violence.

I've lurked there sometimes just to see what was there, and there were some of Aspies who posted there.



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29 Aug 2017, 3:59 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sure, Stormfront might resurface under a new name, or join the pedophiles, Islamist terrorists, and drug dealers on the dark web, but at the very least they've been given notice that their lives have just been made uncomfortable, and that they may very well expect this to happen to them from now on.


Yeah they can have all the freedom of speech in the world....

However they are not protected from sabotaging themselves with it and gaining extreme public disapproval and such. Freedom of speech also means people who disagree with disgusting nazis don't have to host their websites, and businesses don't have to hire nazi employees.


Absolutely.


And people don't have to respect their protest/march things. I understand it is still illegal to attack them as the right to assemble applies. But I see nothing wrong with people forming counter protests and yelling at the nazis for instance...I don't think they should get to march around with the illusion that people might be ok with it they need to see the anger of people at them for their disgusting life choice.


Yes; while they have the right to say any reprehensible thing they wish, the rest of us have the same right to shout them down.


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29 Aug 2017, 5:25 pm

I used to be a visitor on SF just to read some of the good old fashioned "values" carrried by the forum members

The belief in "white supremacy" is hardly unique to extreme right wingers, I think the average person carries beliefs that if they live in a better suburb they are better than somebody else who lives in a poorer suburb or who drives a cheaper car.

This sought of mentality has been around for centuries, music composers long ridiculed the social climbers in society whom the French referred to as "le petit bourgeoisie" a term borrowed by Marx to describe the aspiring middle classes who aim to ingratiate themselves with the powerful and rich and so express disdain for the "hoi Polloi"

The social and class system in the west can be projected at a meta level - the view that there is a "third world" full of poor people who can't help themselves and whom are stereotyped easily. Labeling people who appear "third world" (however well they are dressed or however educated they are) is something that doesn't go away overnight. There is a reason why storm front existed between 1996-2017 and those ideas are not going to go away...



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29 Aug 2017, 8:14 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
Chronos wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
Why should we care if hateful people say hateful things? To me the bet way to deal with bigots is ignore them. Let them do their thing and the rest of us live real lives.


Because hateful words can turn into hateful actions.

Though to some degree I do agree bigots should be ignored in the instances where they represent a small, fringe group for whom not ignoring would serve to give them publicity and a platform which they can use to spread their hate and attract people to their cause.

I still believe anyone should be able to spread there ideas. I personally would not censor hateful opinions. I agree companies and websites have a right to block them. I just wouldn't. Censoring opinions to me is more likely to lead to violence. When people feel oppressed they get violent.


Well if you feel oppressed because you can't promote genocide or scream about the inferiority of ethnic minorities, gay people, ect wherever and whenever you want YOU'RE WRONG!

I say they have their freedom to be bigots. I know companies don't have to service them, but it's my belief that companies should be blind to that sort of thing.