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The Turkish government has gone full fascist.

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JohnPowell
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02 Feb 2018, 1:21 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
The Kurds have been stepped on, murdered, and generally oppressed, while we Americans have been jerking them around with promises of statehood if they helped us, only to screw said Kurds over after we got what we wanted. It is completely amazing to me that the Kurds still remain loyal allies of ours. Personally, I think a free, democratic, self governing Kurdistan is long overdue.


So you want them to have an ethnic state? Gee i wonder where that idea comes from. And where would this state go exactly?


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JohnPowell
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02 Feb 2018, 1:22 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Didn't the Iraqi portion of Kurdistan declare independence?


Not for long...


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02 Feb 2018, 5:44 pm

So long as the Kurds keep ISIS at bay they will keep their little state. Once ISIS is dealt with the Syrians, Iraqis and Turks will turn on them...



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02 Feb 2018, 5:53 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The Kurds have been stepped on, murdered, and generally oppressed, while we Americans have been jerking them around with promises of statehood if they helped us, only to screw said Kurds over after we got what we wanted. It is completely amazing to me that the Kurds still remain loyal allies of ours. Personally, I think a free, democratic, self governing Kurdistan is long overdue.


So you want them to have an ethnic state? Gee i wonder where that idea comes from. And where would this state go exactly?


In the regions of the various countries that they inhabit. As they are an ethnic minority, I would think they couldn't occupy too much land.


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JohnPowell
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03 Feb 2018, 11:30 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The Kurds have been stepped on, murdered, and generally oppressed, while we Americans have been jerking them around with promises of statehood if they helped us, only to screw said Kurds over after we got what we wanted. It is completely amazing to me that the Kurds still remain loyal allies of ours. Personally, I think a free, democratic, self governing Kurdistan is long overdue.


So you want them to have an ethnic state? Gee i wonder where that idea comes from. And where would this state go exactly?


In the regions of the various countries that they inhabit. As they are an ethnic minority, I would think they couldn't occupy too much land.


So again, you support an ethnic state? None of the countries they live in are going to support that, nor should they.


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Kraichgauer
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03 Feb 2018, 3:43 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The Kurds have been stepped on, murdered, and generally oppressed, while we Americans have been jerking them around with promises of statehood if they helped us, only to screw said Kurds over after we got what we wanted. It is completely amazing to me that the Kurds still remain loyal allies of ours. Personally, I think a free, democratic, self governing Kurdistan is long overdue.


So you want them to have an ethnic state? Gee i wonder where that idea comes from. And where would this state go exactly?


In the regions of the various countries that they inhabit. As they are an ethnic minority, I would think they couldn't occupy too much land.


So again, you support an ethnic state? None of the countries they live in are going to support that, nor should they.


I only support an ethnic state in this case because the Kurds have been an oppressed minority for too long. If the countries they live in treated them as equal citizens, then there wouldn't be a need for a Kurdish state.


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03 Feb 2018, 4:42 pm

I think the old addage "in for a penny, in for a pound" applies here

If you classify the Kurds as an oppressed minority and deserving of an independent state then the entire third world national boundaries need re-drawing based on thousands of "deserving" grievances

There is a festering sore of the colonial legacy of administrative boundaries drawn up old empires that completely ignore the autonomous peoples they lumped together for administrative and exploitative convenience.



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03 Feb 2018, 4:55 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I think the old addage "in for a penny, in for a pound" applies here

If you classify the Kurds as an oppressed minority and deserving of an independent state then the entire third world national boundaries need re-drawing based on thousands of "deserving" grievances

There is a festering sore of the colonial legacy of administrative boundaries drawn up old empires that completely ignore the autonomous peoples they lumped together for administrative and exploitative convenience.


If not statehood, then those oppressed groups must be treated as equal citizens.


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03 Feb 2018, 4:57 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think the old addage "in for a penny, in for a pound" applies here

If you classify the Kurds as an oppressed minority and deserving of an independent state then the entire third world national boundaries need re-drawing based on thousands of "deserving" grievances

There is a festering sore of the colonial legacy of administrative boundaries drawn up old empires that completely ignore the autonomous peoples they lumped together for administrative and exploitative convenience.


If not statehood, then those oppressed groups must be treated as equal citizens.

Then we are back to square one...



JohnPowell
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03 Feb 2018, 4:59 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think the old addage "in for a penny, in for a pound" applies here

If you classify the Kurds as an oppressed minority and deserving of an independent state then the entire third world national boundaries need re-drawing based on thousands of "deserving" grievances

There is a festering sore of the colonial legacy of administrative boundaries drawn up old empires that completely ignore the autonomous peoples they lumped together for administrative and exploitative convenience.


If not statehood, then those oppressed groups must be treated as equal citizens.

Then we are back to square one...


Exactly.


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cyberdad
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03 Feb 2018, 5:02 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think the old addage "in for a penny, in for a pound" applies here

If you classify the Kurds as an oppressed minority and deserving of an independent state then the entire third world national boundaries need re-drawing based on thousands of "deserving" grievances

There is a festering sore of the colonial legacy of administrative boundaries drawn up old empires that completely ignore the autonomous peoples they lumped together for administrative and exploitative convenience.


If not statehood, then those oppressed groups must be treated as equal citizens.

Then we are back to square one...


Exactly.


I know where you are going with this...palestine



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03 Feb 2018, 5:04 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think the old addage "in for a penny, in for a pound" applies here

If you classify the Kurds as an oppressed minority and deserving of an independent state then the entire third world national boundaries need re-drawing based on thousands of "deserving" grievances

There is a festering sore of the colonial legacy of administrative boundaries drawn up old empires that completely ignore the autonomous peoples they lumped together for administrative and exploitative convenience.


If not statehood, then those oppressed groups must be treated as equal citizens.

Then we are back to square one...


Maybe so. But equal treatment and liberty are the only things that will stop tribalism and the rise of the ethno state.


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JohnPowell
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03 Feb 2018, 5:27 pm

cyberdad wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think the old addage "in for a penny, in for a pound" applies here

If you classify the Kurds as an oppressed minority and deserving of an independent state then the entire third world national boundaries need re-drawing based on thousands of "deserving" grievances

There is a festering sore of the colonial legacy of administrative boundaries drawn up old empires that completely ignore the autonomous peoples they lumped together for administrative and exploitative convenience.


If not statehood, then those oppressed groups must be treated as equal citizens.

Then we are back to square one...


Exactly.


I know where you are going with this...palestine


Um no, I was just agreeing with you there. It goes without saying.


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cyberdad
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03 Feb 2018, 5:33 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think the old addage "in for a penny, in for a pound" applies here

If you classify the Kurds as an oppressed minority and deserving of an independent state then the entire third world national boundaries need re-drawing based on thousands of "deserving" grievances

There is a festering sore of the colonial legacy of administrative boundaries drawn up old empires that completely ignore the autonomous peoples they lumped together for administrative and exploitative convenience.


If not statehood, then those oppressed groups must be treated as equal citizens.

Then we are back to square one...


Maybe so. But equal treatment and liberty are the only things that will stop tribalism and the rise of the ethno state.

I take this means moving toward a global community requires defragmentation of existing ethno-states? I'm sure The French have no intention of accepting a world where everyone speaks English



cyberdad
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03 Feb 2018, 5:34 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think the old addage "in for a penny, in for a pound" applies here

If you classify the Kurds as an oppressed minority and deserving of an independent state then the entire third world national boundaries need re-drawing based on thousands of "deserving" grievances

There is a festering sore of the colonial legacy of administrative boundaries drawn up old empires that completely ignore the autonomous peoples they lumped together for administrative and exploitative convenience.


If not statehood, then those oppressed groups must be treated as equal citizens.

Then we are back to square one...


Exactly.


I know where you are going with this...palestine


Um no, I was just agreeing with you there. It goes without saying.

well blow me down...let me just pick myself up from the floor...



white_as_snow
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03 Feb 2018, 6:42 pm

the left is very quiet about the opressions of armenian christians in turkey. its wrong to opress kurds and jews says the left, but when it comes to armenians its okay, just pull out your ak74 and kill all of them christian mutha f*****s. and then we are not allowed to talk about it beacuse that would make us all racist islamohpbic etc. remember, the left says that the armenian, greek and assyrian genocide never happend...even thought this groups are brown people.....they still hate them with passion beacuse they are christians.