17 Feb 2019, 10:52 am
goldfish21
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17 Feb 2019, 1:56 pm
EzraS wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I think in many cases it's more a matter of disagreeing rather than ignoring. Those who disagree like kokopelli and kraftiekortie for example come of as more reasonable.
Is it reasonable to disagree with what science is showing us? You do know there has been some catastrophic events in the story of humanity, right?
Was it "reasonable" to think that the Roman Empire would collapse?
Was it "reasonable" to think that a bunch of nomadic warring tribes would conquer the world most powerful empire and raze the greatest cities then build in human history?
Was it "reasonable" to think that a epidemic would decimate half of the European population?
Was it "reasonable" to think that a epidemic would decimate the populations of the American continent, opening it to conquest?
Was it "reasonable" to think that World War 1 would last years and that generals would be so carefree in sending millions of their country citizens to their death?
Was it "reasonable" to think that Hitler would pointlessly kill millions of peoples in extermination camps?
So, yes, I think that it is "reasonable" to think that catastrophes can befall us, more so if it's foreseen through scientific method.
I mean in the way they speak about climate change they sound reasonable and in control. Whereas you sound melodramatic.
A matter of personal opinion & perspective. Anyone who's not sounding the alarm about how bad this stuff really is sounds like they're coming off as dismissing science & climate scientist's collective alarm sounding telling us we have a very short window of time to correct human behaviour or risk being our species' own demise.
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.kokopelli
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17 Feb 2019, 4:29 pm
goldfish21
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17 Feb 2019, 4:37 pm
kokopelli wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Great parts of India and China will become uninhabitable before the end of our current century; not something easy to deal with.
I understand that there are projections that with a warmer climate, drought may increase in parts of India and China. In general, warmer weather will bring more precipitation, but it doesn't necessarily mean that everywhere will get more precipitation. For example, the Desert Southwest will likely be wetter, much as it used to be when the Anasazi civilization was flourishing.
A drought would not make it uninhabitable, but it would make life harder. There are places in the Atacama where it didn't rain for at least 500 years but people did live there. Only in the last few years have they had some rain.
It might surprise you to know, but the driest deserts tend to be cool or cold, not hot.
As for food, if parts of India and China face bad droughts, food, which will be far more available than now, will probably be easier and cheaper to bring in for those who refuse to move.
It always seem to me that the Chicken Littles of the world have no imagination at all. They seem to think that any variation is bad. They seem to think that people cannot adapt to change -- that farmers cannot choose to grow other crops that are better suited to the environment or that people cannot move elsewhere or that technology is stuck at where it is and can never advance to be of better use to us in the future.
In reality, farmers do change the crops they grow. When I was a kid, the big crops in my area were grain sorghum and wheat. Today, in the same area, it is now corn and cotton although wheat and grain sorghum are still grown in smaller amounts.
And with GMOs and now gene editing technologies, the crops will keep improving.
We have a bright new day to look forward to, not a disaster.
How, exactly, are they going to creatively grow crops without water?
The glaciers that supply more than a Billion people with fresh water are melting more rapidly than once thought. Once they're gone, this entire region is super f****d. http://www.irinnews.org/report/95917/cl ... re-rapidly
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.kokopelli
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17 Feb 2019, 5:35 pm
goldfish21 wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Great parts of India and China will become uninhabitable before the end of our current century; not something easy to deal with.
I understand that there are projections that with a warmer climate, drought may increase in parts of India and China. In general, warmer weather will bring more precipitation, but it doesn't necessarily mean that everywhere will get more precipitation. For example, the Desert Southwest will likely be wetter, much as it used to be when the Anasazi civilization was flourishing.
A drought would not make it uninhabitable, but it would make life harder. There are places in the Atacama where it didn't rain for at least 500 years but people did live there. Only in the last few years have they had some rain.
It might surprise you to know, but the driest deserts tend to be cool or cold, not hot.
As for food, if parts of India and China face bad droughts, food, which will be far more available than now, will probably be easier and cheaper to bring in for those who refuse to move.
It always seem to me that the Chicken Littles of the world have no imagination at all. They seem to think that any variation is bad. They seem to think that people cannot adapt to change -- that farmers cannot choose to grow other crops that are better suited to the environment or that people cannot move elsewhere or that technology is stuck at where it is and can never advance to be of better use to us in the future.
In reality, farmers do change the crops they grow. When I was a kid, the big crops in my area were grain sorghum and wheat. Today, in the same area, it is now corn and cotton although wheat and grain sorghum are still grown in smaller amounts.
And with GMOs and now gene editing technologies, the crops will keep improving.
We have a bright new day to look forward to, not a disaster.
How, exactly, are they going to creatively grow crops without water?
The glaciers that supply more than a Billion people with fresh water are melting more rapidly than once thought. Once they're gone, this entire region is super f****d. http://www.irinnews.org/report/95917/cl ... re-rapidly
What? Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? I never said that they would grow crops without water.
I did say that other areas will get plenty of water. If necessary, food can be shipped in from other areas for the few who refuse to migrate elsewhere if the situation becomes that bad.
Tollorin
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17 Feb 2019, 6:14 pm
goldfish21
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17 Feb 2019, 6:47 pm
kokopelli wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Great parts of India and China will become uninhabitable before the end of our current century; not something easy to deal with.
I understand that there are projections that with a warmer climate, drought may increase in parts of India and China. In general, warmer weather will bring more precipitation, but it doesn't necessarily mean that everywhere will get more precipitation. For example, the Desert Southwest will likely be wetter, much as it used to be when the Anasazi civilization was flourishing.
A drought would not make it uninhabitable, but it would make life harder. There are places in the Atacama where it didn't rain for at least 500 years but people did live there. Only in the last few years have they had some rain.
It might surprise you to know, but the driest deserts tend to be cool or cold, not hot.
As for food, if parts of India and China face bad droughts, food, which will be far more available than now, will probably be easier and cheaper to bring in for those who refuse to move.
It always seem to me that the Chicken Littles of the world have no imagination at all. They seem to think that any variation is bad. They seem to think that people cannot adapt to change -- that farmers cannot choose to grow other crops that are better suited to the environment or that people cannot move elsewhere or that technology is stuck at where it is and can never advance to be of better use to us in the future.
In reality, farmers do change the crops they grow. When I was a kid, the big crops in my area were grain sorghum and wheat. Today, in the same area, it is now corn and cotton although wheat and grain sorghum are still grown in smaller amounts.
And with GMOs and now gene editing technologies, the crops will keep improving.
We have a bright new day to look forward to, not a disaster.
How, exactly, are they going to creatively grow crops without water?
The glaciers that supply more than a Billion people with fresh water are melting more rapidly than once thought. Once they're gone, this entire region is super f****d. http://www.irinnews.org/report/95917/cl ... re-rapidly
What? Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? I never said that they would grow crops without water.
I did say that other areas will get plenty of water. If necessary, food can be shipped in from other areas for the few who refuse to migrate elsewhere if the situation becomes that bad.
Your suggestion that 1/7th of the world's population can simply migrate to wherever there's abundant food/water and the rest can just order takeout is ridiculous.
The effects of climate change & shifting water patterns are going to create 1-2 BILLION climate refugees seeking inhabitable areas of the Earth to call home, enough water to grow crops & drink etc. These are the harsh realities of what's already in motion. It's not something that should be ignored as something that's a near non-issue because people can just move & we'll be able to supply those that don't with all they need. In reality, this is going to cause chaos. Many people are going to die & the solutions to these problems are going to be very challenging.
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.17 Feb 2019, 8:23 pm
kokopelli
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17 Feb 2019, 8:32 pm
kokopelli
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17 Feb 2019, 8:34 pm
goldfish21 wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Great parts of India and China will become uninhabitable before the end of our current century; not something easy to deal with.
I understand that there are projections that with a warmer climate, drought may increase in parts of India and China. In general, warmer weather will bring more precipitation, but it doesn't necessarily mean that everywhere will get more precipitation. For example, the Desert Southwest will likely be wetter, much as it used to be when the Anasazi civilization was flourishing.
A drought would not make it uninhabitable, but it would make life harder. There are places in the Atacama where it didn't rain for at least 500 years but people did live there. Only in the last few years have they had some rain.
It might surprise you to know, but the driest deserts tend to be cool or cold, not hot.
As for food, if parts of India and China face bad droughts, food, which will be far more available than now, will probably be easier and cheaper to bring in for those who refuse to move.
It always seem to me that the Chicken Littles of the world have no imagination at all. They seem to think that any variation is bad. They seem to think that people cannot adapt to change -- that farmers cannot choose to grow other crops that are better suited to the environment or that people cannot move elsewhere or that technology is stuck at where it is and can never advance to be of better use to us in the future.
In reality, farmers do change the crops they grow. When I was a kid, the big crops in my area were grain sorghum and wheat. Today, in the same area, it is now corn and cotton although wheat and grain sorghum are still grown in smaller amounts.
And with GMOs and now gene editing technologies, the crops will keep improving.
We have a bright new day to look forward to, not a disaster.
How, exactly, are they going to creatively grow crops without water?
The glaciers that supply more than a Billion people with fresh water are melting more rapidly than once thought. Once they're gone, this entire region is super f****d. http://www.irinnews.org/report/95917/cl ... re-rapidly
What? Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? I never said that they would grow crops without water.
I did say that other areas will get plenty of water. If necessary, food can be shipped in from other areas for the few who refuse to migrate elsewhere if the situation becomes that bad.
Your suggestion that 1/7th of the world's population can simply migrate to wherever there's abundant food/water and the rest can just order takeout is ridiculous.
The effects of climate change & shifting water patterns are going to create 1-2 BILLION climate refugees seeking inhabitable areas of the Earth to call home, enough water to grow crops & drink etc. These are the harsh realities of what's already in motion. It's not something that should be ignored as something that's a near non-issue because people can just move & we'll be able to supply those that don't with all they need. In reality, this is going to cause chaos. Many people are going to die & the solutions to these problems are going to be very challenging.
If nobody is allowed to make any changes to adapt to warming, there will be problems. However, to think that will be the case is highly laughable.
goldfish21
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17 Feb 2019, 8:39 pm
kokopelli wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Great parts of India and China will become uninhabitable before the end of our current century; not something easy to deal with.
I understand that there are projections that with a warmer climate, drought may increase in parts of India and China. In general, warmer weather will bring more precipitation, but it doesn't necessarily mean that everywhere will get more precipitation. For example, the Desert Southwest will likely be wetter, much as it used to be when the Anasazi civilization was flourishing.
A drought would not make it uninhabitable, but it would make life harder. There are places in the Atacama where it didn't rain for at least 500 years but people did live there. Only in the last few years have they had some rain.
It might surprise you to know, but the driest deserts tend to be cool or cold, not hot.
As for food, if parts of India and China face bad droughts, food, which will be far more available than now, will probably be easier and cheaper to bring in for those who refuse to move.
It always seem to me that the Chicken Littles of the world have no imagination at all. They seem to think that any variation is bad. They seem to think that people cannot adapt to change -- that farmers cannot choose to grow other crops that are better suited to the environment or that people cannot move elsewhere or that technology is stuck at where it is and can never advance to be of better use to us in the future.
In reality, farmers do change the crops they grow. When I was a kid, the big crops in my area were grain sorghum and wheat. Today, in the same area, it is now corn and cotton although wheat and grain sorghum are still grown in smaller amounts.
And with GMOs and now gene editing technologies, the crops will keep improving.
We have a bright new day to look forward to, not a disaster.
How, exactly, are they going to creatively grow crops without water?
The glaciers that supply more than a Billion people with fresh water are melting more rapidly than once thought. Once they're gone, this entire region is super f****d. http://www.irinnews.org/report/95917/cl ... re-rapidly
What? Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? I never said that they would grow crops without water.
I did say that other areas will get plenty of water. If necessary, food can be shipped in from other areas for the few who refuse to migrate elsewhere if the situation becomes that bad.
Your suggestion that 1/7th of the world's population can simply migrate to wherever there's abundant food/water and the rest can just order takeout is ridiculous.
The effects of climate change & shifting water patterns are going to create 1-2 BILLION climate refugees seeking inhabitable areas of the Earth to call home, enough water to grow crops & drink etc. These are the harsh realities of what's already in motion. It's not something that should be ignored as something that's a near non-issue because people can just move & we'll be able to supply those that don't with all they need. In reality, this is going to cause chaos. Many people are going to die & the solutions to these problems are going to be very challenging.
If nobody is allowed to make any changes to adapt to warming, there will be problems. However, to think that will be the case is highly laughable.
No one said no one is allowed to make any changes to adapt to warming.
All I'm saying is that this isn't an easy punch to roll with and it's going to become an ever more serious problem for literally Billions of people.
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.
18 Feb 2019, 1:19 am
kokopelli
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18 Feb 2019, 1:38 am
kokopelli
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18 Feb 2019, 1:41 am
goldfish21 wrote:
No one said no one is allowed to make any changes to adapt to warming. All I'm saying is that this isn't an easy punch to roll with and it's going to become an ever more serious problem for literally Billions of people.
All I'm saying is that this isn't an easy punch to roll with and it's going to become an ever more serious problem for literally Billions of people.Do you imagine that suddenly one day it will warm up a couple of degrees and everyone is stuck there?
People will be making their decisions of what they need to do over decades. There may be some temporary hardship in adapting, but they will most likely be better off having done so.
goldfish21
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18 Feb 2019, 1:42 am
kokopelli wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
In general, warmer weather will bring more precipitation, but it doesn't necessarily mean that everywhere will get more precipitation. For example, the Desert Southwest will likely be wetter, much as it used to be when the Anasazi civilization was flourishing.
I think it's simplistic to assume we can adapt to global warming by moving farming to where there's greater precipitation.
There may be areas that get more precipitation but ecosystems are globally interconnected. The reality is that we will have to develop biospheres here on earth (self-sufficient enclosed systems) to survive here on earth.
It helps to understand something about farming. Farmers are always looking at what they can grow best and most profitably. If something else grows better, then they will switch.
You are also very much missing an important point. In general, warmer air can carry more moisture. With an increase in temperature, you can bet that there will be more precipitation available.
One big issue today is water. In many areas, we are drawing down the aquifers faster than they can be depleted. In some cases, the time to replenish an aquifer might be in hundreds of thousands of years if it can ever be replenished. Having more water is not just helpful, it is pretty much necessary. Global Warming will help with that.
Also, warmer weather means longer growing seasons. For example, instead of having one growing season per year now, having two growing seasons a year such as in parts of Mexico would mean far greater production.
Like temperature increases, water distribution will not be uniform. Some areas will experience extreme drought while others become wetlands. The problem is that huge areas of land that currently have fresh water sources are expected not to in the future, resulting in 1-2 Billion people having to flee or die.
Your scenario of "warmer air means more water," is far too simplistic. There is no "more," water, only water being moved around. Some places will get very dry, others wet, and both pose problems.
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.goldfish21
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18 Feb 2019, 1:45 am
kokopelli wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
No one said no one is allowed to make any changes to adapt to warming. All I'm saying is that this isn't an easy punch to roll with and it's going to become an ever more serious problem for literally Billions of people.
All I'm saying is that this isn't an easy punch to roll with and it's going to become an ever more serious problem for literally Billions of people.Do you imagine that suddenly one day it will warm up a couple of degrees and everyone is stuck there?
People will be making their decisions of what they need to do over decades. There may be some temporary hardship in adapting, but they will most likely be better off having done so.
You are delusional if you think this is going to be a calm and orderly process like moving to a house several blocks away. s**t is going to hit the fan and the world is going to experience the largest mass migration of humans ever, and that's going to result in absolute chaos in the countries bordering uninhabitable regions. There will very likely be conflicts/wars over this.
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.
