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MPs vote to reject no-deal Brexit

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BeaArthur
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14 Mar 2019, 12:49 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
[Which is a whole lot better than Big Business begging parliament to reject the will of the British people in a decision parliament put to them


Not sure what you mean about Big Buisness begging parliament. If you mean companies making statements about their own future well-being then that is what I would expect companies to do tbh, they will lok out for themselves. I don't see that as even on the same scale as one person going to powerful people in foreign governments and pleading with them to reject the will of British parliament.

Prometheus18 wrote:
I'd much rather see Mr Rees-Mogg coordinating the Brexit campaign at this point


He is one of the major reasons why Brexit has failed so far. If Brexit is to work then it needs to be balanced and needs to take everyone into account. Mogg is idealogical about it and wants his extreme version and nothing else will do. that will fail, it was quite clearly always destined to once you look at the numbers. If one of todays amendments passes then we are into the territory of balanced brexit with indicative voting


Complete tripe. The reason it has failed is because a bunch of remainers have created a 'deal' that keeps us tied to the EU forever.


Utter garbage. There are many reasons why it hasn't gone well but you have shown time and time again that all you can do is angrily throw insults at people that hold a different political view to you.

Hear! Hear!

This is starting to sound like a parliamentary debate/brawl.


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Biscuitman
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14 Mar 2019, 12:52 pm

'UNLOCK!'



Prometheus18
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14 Mar 2019, 1:04 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
[Which is a whole lot better than Big Business begging parliament to reject the will of the British people in a decision parliament put to them


Not sure what you mean about Big Buisness begging parliament. If you mean companies making statements about their own future well-being then that is what I would expect companies to do tbh, they will lok out for themselves. I don't see that as even on the same scale as one person going to powerful people in foreign governments and pleading with them to reject the will of British parliament.

Prometheus18 wrote:
I'd much rather see Mr Rees-Mogg coordinating the Brexit campaign at this point


He is one of the major reasons why Brexit has failed so far. If Brexit is to work then it needs to be balanced and needs to take everyone into account. Mogg is idealogical about it and wants his extreme version and nothing else will do. that will fail, it was quite clearly always destined to once you look at the numbers. If one of todays amendments passes then we are into the territory of balanced brexit with indicative voting


We all know where party politicians' loyalties are - with the donors. Given that the overwhelming majority of all three of the parties' donations come from corporate, or at any rate very wealthy figures, it's clear, given the additional fact that the most powerful and wealthy business figures tend to oppose Brexit, that they want Brexit blocked or watered down to the point of continued membership, in return for their pains.

As forthe second paragraph, it's funny how the Remain side only started talking about degrees of hardness to Brexit after Britain voted to gain independence in '16. It was quite clear that Britons understood a Leave vote at the very least to mean leaving the Customs Union and rejecting free movement. Suddenly, these issues are now debatable. This just shows how dishonest the pro-EU side is, which shouldn't be surprising, given that it was the lie of mere economic union that brought us into what then became a political union in the first place.



Biscuitman
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14 Mar 2019, 1:19 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
[Which is a whole lot better than Big Business begging parliament to reject the will of the British people in a decision parliament put to them


Not sure what you mean about Big Buisness begging parliament. If you mean companies making statements about their own future well-being then that is what I would expect companies to do tbh, they will lok out for themselves. I don't see that as even on the same scale as one person going to powerful people in foreign governments and pleading with them to reject the will of British parliament.

Prometheus18 wrote:
I'd much rather see Mr Rees-Mogg coordinating the Brexit campaign at this point


He is one of the major reasons why Brexit has failed so far. If Brexit is to work then it needs to be balanced and needs to take everyone into account. Mogg is idealogical about it and wants his extreme version and nothing else will do. that will fail, it was quite clearly always destined to once you look at the numbers. If one of todays amendments passes then we are into the territory of balanced brexit with indicative voting


it's funny how the Remain side only started talking about degrees of hardness to Brexit after Britain voted to gain independence in '16


Once Brexiters starts splitting and arguing with each other that their version of Brexit was best? All sides talk of degrees of Brexit.

Gove & Mogg were both big Leave campaigners, they now oppose each other in parliament as they want different brexits.



Last edited by Biscuitman on 14 Mar 2019, 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Prometheus18
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14 Mar 2019, 1:24 pm

I wouldn't trust either of them as Brexiters. In talking about normal, working and middle class Brexiters and what THEY voted for.



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14 Mar 2019, 1:29 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
I wouldn't trust either of them as Brexiters. In talking about normal, working and middle class Brexiters and what THEY voted for.


I also don't trust either.

None of us really know tbh. It's all guess work.



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14 Mar 2019, 1:30 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
[Which is a whole lot better than Big Business begging parliament to reject the will of the British people in a decision parliament put to them


Not sure what you mean about Big Buisness begging parliament. If you mean companies making statements about their own future well-being then that is what I would expect companies to do tbh, they will lok out for themselves. I don't see that as even on the same scale as one person going to powerful people in foreign governments and pleading with them to reject the will of British parliament.

Prometheus18 wrote:
I'd much rather see Mr Rees-Mogg coordinating the Brexit campaign at this point


He is one of the major reasons why Brexit has failed so far. If Brexit is to work then it needs to be balanced and needs to take everyone into account. Mogg is idealogical about it and wants his extreme version and nothing else will do. that will fail, it was quite clearly always destined to once you look at the numbers. If one of todays amendments passes then we are into the territory of balanced brexit with indicative voting


Complete tripe. The reason it has failed is because a bunch of remainers have created a 'deal' that keeps us tied to the EU forever.


Utter garbage. There are many reasons why it hasn't gone well but you have shown time and time again that all you can do is angrily throw insults at people that hold a different political view to you.


Yeah I'm insulting the government. The reason it hasn't "gone well" is because they won't let us leave the EU. You're calling people who fall in line with what the public wants "extreme".


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14 Mar 2019, 1:32 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
I wouldn't trust either of them as Brexiters. In talking about normal, working and middle class Brexiters and what THEY voted for.


I also don't trust either.

None of us really know tbh. It's all guess work.


We voted to divorce from the EU not to renew our vows.


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Biscuitman
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14 Mar 2019, 2:04 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
[Which is a whole lot better than Big Business begging parliament to reject the will of the British people in a decision parliament put to them


Not sure what you mean about Big Buisness begging parliament. If you mean companies making statements about their own future well-being then that is what I would expect companies to do tbh, they will lok out for themselves. I don't see that as even on the same scale as one person going to powerful people in foreign governments and pleading with them to reject the will of British parliament.

Prometheus18 wrote:
I'd much rather see Mr Rees-Mogg coordinating the Brexit campaign at this point


He is one of the major reasons why Brexit has failed so far. If Brexit is to work then it needs to be balanced and needs to take everyone into account. Mogg is idealogical about it and wants his extreme version and nothing else will do. that will fail, it was quite clearly always destined to once you look at the numbers. If one of todays amendments passes then we are into the territory of balanced brexit with indicative voting


Complete tripe. The reason it has failed is because a bunch of remainers have created a 'deal' that keeps us tied to the EU forever.


Utter garbage. There are many reasons why it hasn't gone well but you have shown time and time again that all you can do is angrily throw insults at people that hold a different political view to you.


Yeah I'm insulting the government. The reason it hasn't "gone well" is because they won't let us leave the EU. You're calling people who fall in line with what the public wants "extreme".


That post shows such a severe lack of knowledge on British political matters. I rarely interact with you on WP as you have made clear on numerous threads what your tactic always is and I have no interest in playing that game.

I am happier conversing with those who have a better grasp of what is going on, no matter what their pov on Brexit or politics in general.



Last edited by Biscuitman on 14 Mar 2019, 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Biscuitman
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14 Mar 2019, 2:09 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
I must admit I love parliamentary procedures, the history of it all, the mechanics. I find it fascinating.

When they are debating in the House of Commons they are doing so through the speaker, so they are addressing him

Last night was one of the most dramatic political Commons moments for a long time. Watching them voting, while amendments are made to change the motion, whipping of MP's is being changed during the process, the TV will have commentary over it while their people are also down near the Commons getting updates from MP's. It's better than any tv drama series! :D

Cleeeear the lobby!! !

Thank you for attempting to educate me, but I fear I might not be educable. It's as foreign to me as cricket or soccer (footie, to you)


I will save my cricket explanation for another day then. Although for this aspie all those numbers and stats are heaven! :D



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14 Mar 2019, 2:28 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
[Which is a whole lot better than Big Business begging parliament to reject the will of the British people in a decision parliament put to them


Not sure what you mean about Big Buisness begging parliament. If you mean companies making statements about their own future well-being then that is what I would expect companies to do tbh, they will lok out for themselves. I don't see that as even on the same scale as one person going to powerful people in foreign governments and pleading with them to reject the will of British parliament.

Prometheus18 wrote:
I'd much rather see Mr Rees-Mogg coordinating the Brexit campaign at this point


He is one of the major reasons why Brexit has failed so far. If Brexit is to work then it needs to be balanced and needs to take everyone into account. Mogg is idealogical about it and wants his extreme version and nothing else will do. that will fail, it was quite clearly always destined to once you look at the numbers. If one of todays amendments passes then we are into the territory of balanced brexit with indicative voting


Complete tripe. The reason it has failed is because a bunch of remainers have created a 'deal' that keeps us tied to the EU forever.


Utter garbage. There are many reasons why it hasn't gone well but you have shown time and time again that all you can do is angrily throw insults at people that hold a different political view to you.


Yeah I'm insulting the government. The reason it hasn't "gone well" is because they won't let us leave the EU. You're calling people who fall in line with what the public wants "extreme".


That post shows such a severe lack of knowledge on British political matters. I rarely interact with you on WP as you have made clear on numerous threads what your tactic always is and I have no interest in playing that game.

I am happier conversing with those who have a better grasp of what is going on, no matter what their pov on Brexit or politics in general.


I know exactly what is going on and my predictions have come true. I said May is a remainer and establishment puppet and won't let real power down. Been saying it for years. She pretends like it's out of her hands. 43% of people in a YouGov poll said they want to leave without a deal. And leaving without a deal is Brexit. Being tied to the EU forever is not leaving the EU. The government rejected a free trade deal up until last March that the EU was allegedly offering us. The government would have prepared properly for no deal from the start if they were serious about leaving the EU.


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BaronHarkonnen85
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14 Mar 2019, 4:37 pm

The whole situation is a disgrace.

May's deal has been rejected twice. By rights, she should resign.

the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act needs to go so the Queen can dissolve parliament again.


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14 Mar 2019, 5:32 pm

If the British negotiators really wanted a "good" deal they'd play their trump card (no pun intended), which is the enormous trade deficit between the UK and the EU, favouring the latter. Once the Germans (who run the EU) realised that their car manufacturers and bankers were going to lose trillions in business, they'd come running to US for money. If I were negotiating for the UK, far from paying eighty billion pounds (or whatever it is this week) for a trade deal, I'd be asking that sum for one. I agree that a free trade deal is in the interests of both parties, but theirs more than ours. Certainly, I'd rather revert to World Trade rules than pay the EU a penny, beyond what we legally owe, for a trade deal.

The fact is, of course, that the EU negotiators and the British ones are on exactly the same side. The strategy is to make sure parliament votes in a blanket ban on a no-deal Brexit before further making sure that no deal is offered by the EU, so that, by logical necessity, there can't be a Brexit.



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14 Mar 2019, 5:35 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
If the British negotiators really wanted a "good" deal they'd play their trump card (no pun intended), which is the enormous trade deficit between the UK and the EU, favouring the latter. Once the Germans (who run the EU) realised that their car manufacturers and bankers were going to lose trillions in business, they'd come running to US for money. If I were negotiating for the UK, far from paying eighty billion pounds (or whatever it is this week) for a trade deal, I'd be asking that sum for one. I agree that a free trade deal is in the interests of both parties, but theirs more than ours. Certainly, I'd rather revert to World Trade rules than pay the EU a penny, beyond what we legally owe, for a trade deal.

The fact is, of course, that the EU negotiators and the British ones are on exactly the same side. The strategy is to make sure parliament votes in a blanket ban on a no-deal Brexit before further making sure that no deal is offered by the EU, so that, by logical necessity, there can't be a Brexit.


The 2 options are staying in the EU forever or staying tied to the EU forever.


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15 Mar 2019, 1:09 am

JohnPowell wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
What happened to Nigel Farage?

He caused this Brexit mayhem and then crawled back under the rock he originally came from...


Didn't he start a new party or something?


yesterday he was publicly begging foreign governments to reject the will of British parliament


To implement the decision of the British people.


If that referendum was to happen today the Brits would overwhelmingly vote to to return to the EU, the "ignoramuses" who happily voted "leave" now fear having to pay a stack more for everything in a independent UK is far worse than Nigel Farage's scaremongering fantasy of brown skinned hordes catching trains across the channel tunnel

The old (stiff upper lip) pensioners who wanted to return to the glory days of empire (draped in their union jacks) will enjoy freezing to death because they can no longer afford their power bills.



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15 Mar 2019, 1:52 am

cyberdad wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
What happened to Nigel Farage?

He caused this Brexit mayhem and then crawled back under the rock he originally came from...


Didn't he start a new party or something?


yesterday he was publicly begging foreign governments to reject the will of British parliament


To implement the decision of the British people.


If that referendum was to happen today the Brits would overwhelmingly vote to to return to the EU, the "ignoramuses" who happily voted "leave" now fear having to pay a stack more for everything in a independent UK is far worse than Nigel Farage's scaremongering fantasy of brown skinned hordes catching trains across the channel tunnel

The old (stiff upper lip) pensioners who wanted to return to the glory days of empire (draped in their union jacks) will enjoy freezing to death because they can no longer afford their power bills.


I'd be interested to know, where did you get such repulsive ideas? Do they spew this garbage in your media? There's open talk of an EU army and talk of using the army for internal use. Maybe British people who fought off the Nazis don't like the idea of German soldiers on the streets. Strangely enough Farage cited Australia's immigration policy as an example. The EU that helps force the insane green taxes makes sure that energy bills are too high. Many elderly people have died of the cold each year because they can't afford to pay the bills WHILE IN THE EU. The most popular choice is now to leave the EU without a deal.

You have no idea what you're on about.


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