Far right on the rise in Europe

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28 May 2019, 3:37 am

magz wrote:

My short version of what's happening:

The left tends to deny any problems concerning immigration, which is the most bothering for the right;
The right tends to deny need for excessive environment protection, which concerns the left the most;
(Additionally, they strongly disagree on LGBT issues.)
The center does its best to avoid adressing any of the problems that concern either the right or the left - or they sometimes do some erratic, superficial movements that hardly help anything.

Yeah, that's about it.

EzraS
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28 May 2019, 3:57 am

I get the feeling that the progressive lefties want to continue progressing ie taking control of society and tend to consider those shifting to the right instead as a shift towards fascist white supremcy - mainly because that's how their favorite media sources are portraying things.

It seems there has to be threats they need to save the world from such as nazis taking over and imminent climate apocalypse.

magz
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28 May 2019, 4:06 am

EzraS wrote:

Yes but it's only one side of the coin.
The other is - my parents read right-wing press so I can see it - saving the world from LGBT taking over and saving the country from an immigratory apocalypse.

How do you mobilize people? Give them something to fear and tell them to save the world.

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cyberdad
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28 May 2019, 4:06 am

Fireblossom wrote:

And just to clarify: I'm neither left or right, I'm in the middle. Here we have official middle parties, not just left and right.

magz wrote:

My short version of what's happening:
The center does its best to avoid adressing any of the problems that concern either the right or the left - or they sometimes do some erratic, superficial movements that hardly help anything.

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.

Edmund Burke 1770

Seems we never learn the lessons of history...

EzraS
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28 May 2019, 4:41 am

magz wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I get the feeling the right feels they are doing a lot of virtue signalling when it comes to LGBT and migrats to gain numbers and votes.

There is of course a migrant crisis. The massive caravans exist because of a crisis. But the problem is there's a massive housing crisis in the places they're migrating to.

magz
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28 May 2019, 4:50 am

EzraS wrote:

In US, yes.
In EU, the situation is a bit different, we don't really have housing crisis (maybe because Europeans don't mind living in apartaments) but there are social security and law enforcement issues and also tensions between the EU states because of uneven immigrant load.

What seems funny to me, the immigrants and the environment are generally independent issues that could be adressed independently, without the people concerned by either fighting each other.

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EzraS
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28 May 2019, 4:58 am

magz wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I know there's supposed to be a major housing crisis in the UK based on this show I have been watching.
https://youtu.be/T6wtiJmWv_A

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28 May 2019, 5:07 am

EzraS wrote:

magz wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I know there's supposed to be a major housing crisis in the UK based on this show I have been watching.
https://youtu.be/T6wtiJmWv_A

The British are a bit different than the continental.
Can't really tell, I haven't been there since 2003.

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EzraS
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28 May 2019, 7:50 am

magz wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I'd have to add that I don't know how it is in the EU but the housing crisis includes apartments. In many places people are on waiting lists to get tiny studios. Even bedrooms for rent in houses are becoming scarce.

So even if that's not happening in the EU yet, I can see people not wanting it to.

I think these other countries need to get it together grow up and operate properly rather than the solution being massive migration.

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28 May 2019, 9:42 am

cyberdad wrote:

Fireblossom wrote:

And just to clarify: I'm neither left or right, I'm in the middle. Here we have official middle parties, not just left and right.

magz wrote:

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.

Edmund Burke 1770

Seems we never learn the lessons of history...

You got me there... :oops:

I used to lean heavily to one side. It's not like I didn't know of their faults, but I was under the impression that they were smaller than the faults of the opposing side, so that's why I took that side. However, as I've followed politics inside and outside of my country, I've come to the conclusion that the side I rooted for earlier getting too much power might very well affect my life and values way more negatively than I ever thought, hence the retreat to the middle. I know the middle has a bit of a reputation of not doing anything, but who says it has to remain that way? Maybe we can change it; maybe we could make our own political party in the middle called "the reasonable ones."

(The last part is a joke, but the thing about those in the middle actually doing something in the future is not.)

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28 May 2019, 10:50 am

EzraS wrote:

Of course it would be better if the war in Syria ended and African countries (and people) got rich. And, from my more local perspective, if Donbass conflict is solved and the economy of Ukraine improved.
But until all these happens, we need to deal with the people who have reasons not to want to live there.

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cyberdad
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29 May 2019, 2:18 am

Fireblossom wrote:

You got me there... :oops:

(The last part is a joke, but the thing about those in the middle actually doing something in the future is not.)

Well at the end of the day it's up to you

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29 May 2019, 1:21 pm

As a person that loves history, whenever I see Adolf Hitler speaking I get myself very happy.

Not about what he says, it is just how he says it. I have the idea that during that period I would have probably be en a nazi due to the fact that Hitler's speeches are too much of a thing. I don't admire what he did but everytime I see such a huge number of people under a single "order" I'm pleased.

I would like to see something like that in the future, people united under a single belief/condition, I know nowaday is harder than ever due to the vast presence of political parties but in my mind the idea of a single order still pleases me

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29 May 2019, 1:29 pm

BlossX wrote:

What you say sounds really scary.

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BlossX
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29 May 2019, 1:48 pm

magz wrote:

BlossX wrote:

What you say sounds really scary.

I don't know what to say, if you want I can start to censor myself. But I am not willing to.

I watch a lot of history/read academic books and everytime I see footare from the World War 2 "The Nazi order" gives me a sense of community and strenght.

This should not scare you, because this obviously does not mean that I embrace nazi values. I am trying to convey what my mind likes of that period, don't get me wrong.

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29 May 2019, 2:01 pm

BlossX wrote:

Don't censor yourself for me, I'm often fascinated by what I find scary.
Hitler was extremely popular in his time and place. It didn't come from nothing. He appealed to many.
Btw the estetics of 3rd Reich was quite tasteful. There must have been something that people liked.

What I find scary is, he united the nation using hate towards quite arbitrary common enemy.

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