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Persephone29
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16 Aug 2019, 6:31 am

cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
[ But doing so boosts your claim that every Trump supporter is racist. It's a desperate and base way to try and win this argument.


I think this word "racist" is bandied around but only applied to a hardcore 10% (that's the number in most western countries). What you have in the Trump era are millions of whites who tolerate racism and shrug their shoulders because they deep down think minorities already get too much benefit and are "identarian" in subconsciously associating being American with being white because blacks down live in their neighbourhood or go their children's schools or join their associations or clubs. We have this in Australia as well where the way our lifestyles go, white Australians rarely cross paths with non-whites outside of work.


What exactly do you expect us to do? Should we raid the compounds of white extremists?

Change begins with me... My granddaughter has sleepovers with her girlfriends from every race. That means she brings all races into our home. I go to AA meetings/NA meetings, that means that my friend base is all colors. When I am working, I work with all races. But, even for someone who doesn't, it could merely be circumstantial. And I can promise you that if they took a fold out chair into a neighborhood that was predominantly black and told the blacks that sit around an talk over coffee, that they were there to increase their daily exposure to other races, they would not be well received. You're assuming that people of color want to spend extra time around us, maybe they don't. Have you asked the local people of color in your area if their lives would be enriched if some random white person came into their space to 'hang out?' They might not agree.


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16 Aug 2019, 10:12 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
Change begins with me... My granddaughter has sleepovers with her girlfriends from every race. That means she brings all races into our home. I go to AA meetings/NA meetings, that means that my friend base is all colors. When I am working, I work with all races. But, even for someone who doesn't, it could merely be circumstantial. And I can promise you that if they took a fold out chair into a neighborhood that was predominantly black and told the blacks that sit around an talk over coffee, that they were there to increase their daily exposure to other races, they would not be well received.

Yes you are exactly correct, change does start with us as individuals. I am in complete agreement here.


Persephone29 wrote:
you are assuming that people of color want to spend extra time around us, maybe they don't. Have you asked the local people of color in your area if their lives would be enriched if some random white person came into their space to 'hang out?' They might not agree.


I think you need to be careful about projecting your own values/experiences on another community. I'm not linked to Africa or blacks myself but I cam still empathise with their experiences and totally understand why most may choose to avoid people like us (and I doubt it's the same reason why many whites avoid them). As I said before intergenerational trauma is a very real psychological condition and I don't pretend to know what they are going through.



Persephone29
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16 Aug 2019, 10:43 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Change begins with me... My granddaughter has sleepovers with her girlfriends from every race. That means she brings all races into our home. I go to AA meetings/NA meetings, that means that my friend base is all colors. When I am working, I work with all races. But, even for someone who doesn't, it could merely be circumstantial. And I can promise you that if they took a fold out chair into a neighborhood that was predominantly black and told the blacks that sit around an talk over coffee, that they were there to increase their daily exposure to other races, they would not be well received.

Yes you are exactly correct, change does start with us as individuals. I am in complete agreement here.


Persephone29 wrote:
you are assuming that people of color want to spend extra time around us, maybe they don't. Have you asked the local people of color in your area if their lives would be enriched if some random white person came into their space to 'hang out?' They might not agree.


I think you need to be careful about projecting your own values/experiences on another community. I'm not linked to Africa or blacks myself but I cam still empathise with their experiences and totally understand why most may choose to avoid people like us (and I doubt it's the same reason why many whites avoid them). As I said before intergenerational trauma is a very real psychological condition and I don't pretend to know what they are going through.


My point is that you don't seem to be taking into consideration what they want. Do you know for a fact that blacks are wanting to spend extra time around whites, beyond the school, work relationships? If I make a friend, I take that as it comes. But I also respect that blacks, people of color have a say in how this goes too.


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cyberdad
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16 Aug 2019, 11:00 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
My point is that you don't seem to be taking into consideration what they want. Do you know for a fact that blacks are wanting to spend extra time around whites, beyond the school, work relationships? If I make a friend, I take that as it comes. But I also respect that blacks, people of color have a say in how this goes too.


I think that was the whole purpose of the civil rights marches from the late 1940s to the mid 1960s. That African Americans wanted to live in the same neighbourhoods as white folk, work in same jobs, go to the same schools, use the drinking fountains, stay in the same hotels, use the same swimming pools...I could go on....

Despite the many advances, America remains a divided country
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... us-cities/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ite-spaces

I hear black celebrities talk about being pro-Black but honestly they live in white neighborhoods, kids go to white schools and they wouldn't return to the run-down housing areas where they grew up and their parents lived. To claim black people somehow don't want to live or interact with whites is plain wrong, the want the same privileges that white folk get,



auntblabby
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16 Aug 2019, 11:54 pm

^^^you can't expect the magas to ever acknowledge this.



Persephone29
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17 Aug 2019, 3:25 am

cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
My point is that you don't seem to be taking into consideration what they want. Do you know for a fact that blacks are wanting to spend extra time around whites, beyond the school, work relationships? If I make a friend, I take that as it comes. But I also respect that blacks, people of color have a say in how this goes too.


I think that was the whole purpose of the civil rights marches from the late 1940s to the mid 1960s. That African Americans wanted to live in the same neighbourhoods as white folk, work in same jobs, go to the same schools, use the drinking fountains, stay in the same hotels, use the same swimming pools...I could go on....

Despite the many advances, America remains a divided country
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... us-cities/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ite-spaces

I hear black celebrities talk about being pro-Black but honestly they live in white neighborhoods, kids go to white schools and they wouldn't return to the run-down housing areas where they grew up and their parents lived. To claim black people somehow don't want to live or interact with whites is plain wrong, the want the same privileges that white folk get,


Okay, how do you propose to make this happen? I'm fine living around blacks. No one is preventing them moving in my neighborhood, so where are they?


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cyberdad
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17 Aug 2019, 5:53 am

African Americans seem to be in a similar situation to Australian aborigines, not surprisingly Australians have treated aborigines almost as badly (a number of laws were enacted in the 20th century which were directly borrowed from American Jim Crow laws relating to restricting their spaces/movement/who they could marry/jobs they were allowed to do).

However aboriginal people have crossed the racial boundaries last century so today mixed race aborigines outnumber "pure bloods" so that probably half can pass as white.

I think interracial mixing is the only cure for racism



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17 Aug 2019, 5:58 am

cyberdad wrote:
I think interracial mixing is the only cure for racism

which is another way of saying only love can conquer hate.



Persephone29
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17 Aug 2019, 9:24 am

cyberdad wrote:
African Americans seem to be in a similar situation to Australian aborigines, not surprisingly Australians have treated aborigines almost as badly (a number of laws were enacted in the 20th century which were directly borrowed from American Jim Crow laws relating to restricting their spaces/movement/who they could marry/jobs they were allowed to do).

However aboriginal people have crossed the racial boundaries last century so today mixed race aborigines outnumber "pure bloods" so that probably half can pass as white.

I think interracial mixing is the only cure for racism



So this is how they move into white neighborhoods? What if they don't want to marry a white person? You are acting as if white's are what's preventing interracial marriage. There are two parties involved in your plan, yet you act as if there's only one: whites. This is turning out to be a bizarre and revealing conversation into your psyche. You believe in inclusion and equality, yet you are speaking for blacks as if they lack the mental capacity to weigh in and make relationship choices for themselves.


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LoveNotHate
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17 Aug 2019, 4:36 pm

cyberdad wrote:
African Americans seem to be in a similar situation to Australian aborigines, not surprisingly Australians have treated aborigines almost as badly (a number of laws were enacted in the 20th century which were directly borrowed from American Jim Crow laws relating to restricting their spaces/movement/who they could marry/jobs they were allowed to do).

However aboriginal people have crossed the racial boundaries last century so today mixed race aborigines outnumber "pure bloods" so that probably half can pass as white.

I think interracial mixing is the only cure for racism

I think it will continue.

Pick any country, and most likely, there's one ethnic/racial group that hates another ethnic/racial group.

The hatred is not about racism per se.

It's about some underlying fear(s).


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17 Aug 2019, 5:34 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
African Americans seem to be in a similar situation to Australian aborigines, not surprisingly Australians have treated aborigines almost as badly (a number of laws were enacted in the 20th century which were directly borrowed from American Jim Crow laws relating to restricting their spaces/movement/who they could marry/jobs they were allowed to do).

However aboriginal people have crossed the racial boundaries last century so today mixed race aborigines outnumber "pure bloods" so that probably half can pass as white.

I think interracial mixing is the only cure for racism



So this is how they move into white neighborhoods? What if they don't want to marry a white person? You are acting as if white's are what's preventing interracial marriage. There are two parties involved in your plan, yet you act as if there's only one: whites. This is turning out to be a bizarre and revealing conversation into your psyche. You believe in inclusion and equality, yet you are speaking for blacks as if they lack the mental capacity to weigh in and make relationship choices for themselves.


In all fairness, it was whites who had instituted anti-mixed marriage laws, as well as Jim Crow laws. And as blacks aren't the majority, or in charge, they can hardly be blamed for those things.


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Persephone29
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17 Aug 2019, 5:53 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
African Americans seem to be in a similar situation to Australian aborigines, not surprisingly Australians have treated aborigines almost as badly (a number of laws were enacted in the 20th century which were directly borrowed from American Jim Crow laws relating to restricting their spaces/movement/who they could marry/jobs they were allowed to do).

However aboriginal people have crossed the racial boundaries last century so today mixed race aborigines outnumber "pure bloods" so that probably half can pass as white.

I think interracial mixing is the only cure for racism



So this is how they move into white neighborhoods? What if they don't want to marry a white person? You are acting as if white's are what's preventing interracial marriage. There are two parties involved in your plan, yet you act as if there's only one: whites. This is turning out to be a bizarre and revealing conversation into your psyche. You believe in inclusion and equality, yet you are speaking for blacks as if they lack the mental capacity to weigh in and make relationship choices for themselves.


In all fairness, it was whites who had instituted anti-mixed marriage laws, as well as Jim Crow laws. And as blacks aren't the majority, or in charge, they can hardly be blamed for those things.


Those laws aren't in use, there's nothing preventing two people of different races from marrying. My question is still the same, has anyone polled the black community to see if they want to marry whites exclusively? They may like their own color for spouses.


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17 Aug 2019, 6:04 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
African Americans seem to be in a similar situation to Australian aborigines, not surprisingly Australians have treated aborigines almost as badly (a number of laws were enacted in the 20th century which were directly borrowed from American Jim Crow laws relating to restricting their spaces/movement/who they could marry/jobs they were allowed to do).

However aboriginal people have crossed the racial boundaries last century so today mixed race aborigines outnumber "pure bloods" so that probably half can pass as white.

I think interracial mixing is the only cure for racism



So this is how they move into white neighborhoods? What if they don't want to marry a white person? You are acting as if white's are what's preventing interracial marriage. There are two parties involved in your plan, yet you act as if there's only one: whites. This is turning out to be a bizarre and revealing conversation into your psyche. You believe in inclusion and equality, yet you are speaking for blacks as if they lack the mental capacity to weigh in and make relationship choices for themselves.


In all fairness, it was whites who had instituted anti-mixed marriage laws, as well as Jim Crow laws. And as blacks aren't the majority, or in charge, they can hardly be blamed for those things.


Those laws aren't in use, there's nothing preventing two people of different races from marrying. My question is still the same, has anyone polled the black community to see if they want to marry whites exclusively? They may like their own color for spouses.


True, but the ghost of Jim Crow still haunts us.


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Persephone29
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17 Aug 2019, 7:40 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
African Americans seem to be in a similar situation to Australian aborigines, not surprisingly Australians have treated aborigines almost as badly (a number of laws were enacted in the 20th century which were directly borrowed from American Jim Crow laws relating to restricting their spaces/movement/who they could marry/jobs they were allowed to do).

However aboriginal people have crossed the racial boundaries last century so today mixed race aborigines outnumber "pure bloods" so that probably half can pass as white.

I think interracial mixing is the only cure for racism



So this is how they move into white neighborhoods? What if they don't want to marry a white person? You are acting as if white's are what's preventing interracial marriage. There are two parties involved in your plan, yet you act as if there's only one: whites. This is turning out to be a bizarre and revealing conversation into your psyche. You believe in inclusion and equality, yet you are speaking for blacks as if they lack the mental capacity to weigh in and make relationship choices for themselves.


In all fairness, it was whites who had instituted anti-mixed marriage laws, as well as Jim Crow laws. And as blacks aren't the majority, or in charge, they can hardly be blamed for those things.


Those laws aren't in use, there's nothing preventing two people of different races from marrying. My question is still the same, has anyone polled the black community to see if they want to marry whites exclusively? They may like their own color for spouses.


True, but the ghost of Jim Crow still haunts us.



:roll: We are light years beyond where we were in the 60's


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17 Aug 2019, 9:28 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
African Americans seem to be in a similar situation to Australian aborigines, not surprisingly Australians have treated aborigines almost as badly (a number of laws were enacted in the 20th century which were directly borrowed from American Jim Crow laws relating to restricting their spaces/movement/who they could marry/jobs they were allowed to do).

However aboriginal people have crossed the racial boundaries last century so today mixed race aborigines outnumber "pure bloods" so that probably half can pass as white.

I think interracial mixing is the only cure for racism



So this is how they move into white neighborhoods? What if they don't want to marry a white person? You are acting as if white's are what's preventing interracial marriage. There are two parties involved in your plan, yet you act as if there's only one: whites. This is turning out to be a bizarre and revealing conversation into your psyche. You believe in inclusion and equality, yet you are speaking for blacks as if they lack the mental capacity to weigh in and make relationship choices for themselves.


In all fairness, it was whites who had instituted anti-mixed marriage laws, as well as Jim Crow laws. And as blacks aren't the majority, or in charge, they can hardly be blamed for those things.


Those laws aren't in use, there's nothing preventing two people of different races from marrying. My question is still the same, has anyone polled the black community to see if they want to marry whites exclusively? They may like their own color for spouses.


True, but the ghost of Jim Crow still haunts us.



:roll: We are light years beyond where we were in the 60's


Depends who you talk to.
There are too many whites who believe not only that racism doesn't exist anymore, but that so called reverse racism is a bigger problem.


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Persephone29
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17 Aug 2019, 10:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
African Americans seem to be in a similar situation to Australian aborigines, not surprisingly Australians have treated aborigines almost as badly (a number of laws were enacted in the 20th century which were directly borrowed from American Jim Crow laws relating to restricting their spaces/movement/who they could marry/jobs they were allowed to do).

However aboriginal people have crossed the racial boundaries last century so today mixed race aborigines outnumber "pure bloods" so that probably half can pass as white.

I think interracial mixing is the only cure for racism



So this is how they move into white neighborhoods? What if they don't want to marry a white person? You are acting as if white's are what's preventing interracial marriage. There are two parties involved in your plan, yet you act as if there's only one: whites. This is turning out to be a bizarre and revealing conversation into your psyche. You believe in inclusion and equality, yet you are speaking for blacks as if they lack the mental capacity to weigh in and make relationship choices for themselves.


In all fairness, it was whites who had instituted anti-mixed marriage laws, as well as Jim Crow laws. And as blacks aren't the majority, or in charge, they can hardly be blamed for those things.


Those laws aren't in use, there's nothing preventing two people of different races from marrying. My question is still the same, has anyone polled the black community to see if they want to marry whites exclusively? They may like their own color for spouses.


True, but the ghost of Jim Crow still haunts us.



:roll: We are light years beyond where we were in the 60's


Depends who you talk to.
There are too many whites who believe not only that racism doesn't exist anymore, but that so called reverse racism is a bigger problem.


I don't care about reverse racism, I can fight my own way through most obstacles. I think racism is lucrative, in some ways very beneficial to those who want to use it as an excuse never to try. Or as a defense against legitimate issues with work performance. " Oh, you don't like that I show up an hour late, and then don't work? I'll accuse you of racism. " That turns people off and it makes them less compassionate towards issues of true racism. It's overused to the point that it's losing effectiveness.


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