Rich-boy Rapist a Role Model

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Sweetleaf
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07 Sep 2019, 8:51 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Antrax wrote:

However, your post is titled after Turner's father's moronic assertion his son could be a role model. Yes, it's stupid as hell, but lots of parents do or say stupid things for their children. Not long ago we had a thread on a mother who was pleading that her son who was arrested for making a threat to shoot up his school was "just joking."
Humans are evolutionarily hardwired to protect their children. I see nothing here besides a father grasping at straws to protect his son.

The difference though is the mother had a duty to advocate for her son as he hadn't committed any crime and she was hoping to keep him out of jail. Of course if the repercussion of releasing him is that he does end up shooting his schoolmates then that's another matter (but a hypothetical one).

Brock Turner's father is defending his son's rape of Chanel Miller. That's really quite disgraceful as the damage has been done. If you read his comments that he equated the rape/violation of Miller to "20 minutes" of them having a bit of fun as if the timeframe makes Turner's taking advantage of her unconcious state less serious. His claim that his son could be a role model for other young men is also disgraceful as it's an open advertisement that you can only get away with rape but even become some type of hero. Imagine young men having to listen to Brock Turner; teenage boys aren't that ignorant, they would know that the only reason Turner was walking the streets is because "daddy could afford the best lawyers"

If you turn the tables do you really think the father would evert utter this tripe if it was his daughter who was raped and left in a dumpster?

As far as I know it is a crime to threaten to shoot up schools and public places.

Also brock turners father could be in denial, perhaps.

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Antrax
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07 Sep 2019, 9:01 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Antrax wrote:

You're missing the point. His father isn't right, it just isn't noteworthy that he is wrong.

It's like being outraged that a gangleader tries to cover up a murder his son committed. It's thoroughly expected that the gangleader will try to do that.

On the note of the mother. Well actually her son committed a felony under the law. If you want to take issue with that law so be it.

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cyberdad
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07 Sep 2019, 9:19 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Antrax wrote:

As far as I know it is a crime to threaten to shoot up schools and public places.

Also brock turners father could be in denial, perhaps.

The former is a thought crime

cyberdad
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07 Sep 2019, 9:24 pm

Antrax wrote:

On the note of the mother. Well actually her son committed a felony under the law. If you want to take issue with that law so be it.

As I mentioned to sweetleaf, a thought crime requires advocacy which gives her son breathing space to get the treatment he needs for his mental illness. I'm not saying he should be free to roam the streets, but rather than applying the criminal justice system he needs to be treated for his mental health issues and maybe institutionalised.

In Brock Turner's case he is not only free to roam the streets but his father his encouraging that his son go on lecture tours to brag to male students about how he got away with a sickening crime.

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08 Sep 2019, 3:43 am

blazingstar wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

pure evil. to paraphase a quote of dorothy parker's, you can tell what god thinks of money by looking at the people he gave it to.

We could use a Dorothy Parker about now.

unfortunately, too many misconstrue what her meaning was, thinking she was somehow glorifying rich people and/or denigrating the non-rich.

Wolfram87
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08 Sep 2019, 4:17 am

cyberdad wrote:

In Brock Turner's case he is not only free to roam the streets but his father his encouraging that his son go on lecture tours to brag to male students about how he got away with a sickening crime.

The going on lectures idea is a bit of a stretch, but how up are you on the details on this "sickening crime"? There are reasons why he only got 3 months.

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blazingstar
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08 Sep 2019, 5:22 am

auntblabby wrote:

blazingstar wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

pure evil. to paraphase a quote of dorothy parker's, you can tell what god thinks of money by looking at the people he gave it to.

We could use a Dorothy Parker about now.

unfortunately, too many misconstrue what her meaning was, thinking she was somehow glorifying rich people and/or denigrating the non-rich.

True, but she would have come up with something else in response. I mourn the paucity of wit.

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beneficii
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08 Sep 2019, 5:35 pm

Antrax wrote:

If you see my thread about what advantages wealth should convey over in PPR, I think this is a failing of our legal system. Wealthy individuals can hire better lawyers and get better legal outcomes. While I'm generally in favor of capitalism (as I've argued ad nauseum), the punishment for crimes should be the same regardless of background.

As for Turner's father, a lot of parents have glaring blind spots for their children.

This is a good post, and I think brings up a good point.

A lot of law enforcement officers and the public are opposed to making sure that poor people can hire adequate lawyers because they're afraid it means a lot more rapists will get off like Brock Turner. One police officer on Quora, wants to make it a condition of getting an adequate public defender (as opposed to the current mess) for the defendant to have to have a disposition where they must truthfully give evidence, which disposition will be compared to what the defense argues in trial: If there's a contradiction, then the defendant gets in trouble (though I don't remember or they weren't very clear as to what that means).

I think this represents a crucial loss of faith in the adversarial system. I am increasingly wondering if an inquisitorial system may work better for this country.

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cyberdad
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09 Sep 2019, 3:39 am

Wolfram87 wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

In Brock Turner's case he is not only free to roam the streets but his father his encouraging that his son go on lecture tours to brag to male students about how he got away with a sickening crime.

The going on lectures idea is a bit of a stretch, but how up are you on the details on this "sickening crime"? There are reasons why he only got 3 months.

This might answer your question
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-07/ ... ed/9842814

Wolfram87
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09 Sep 2019, 3:59 am

cyberdad wrote:

Wolfram87 wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

In Brock Turner's case he is not only free to roam the streets but his father his encouraging that his son go on lecture tours to brag to male students about how he got away with a sickening crime.

The going on lectures idea is a bit of a stretch, but how up are you on the details on this "sickening crime"? There are reasons why he only got 3 months.

This might answer your question
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-07/ ... ed/9842814

I'll take that as "I don't need to be informed, I'll get by on my hollow outrage".

The girl in question is an alcoholic with a documented history of lucid blackouts i.e. she's up and lucid and acting as normal until she passes out, and then suffers significant memory lapses. Add to that the witnesses that confimed that she willingly (possibly on her initiative, but I can't recall) left with Turner for a drunken (both of them) tryst behind a dumpster, where she proceeds to pass out mid-act. Turner, also drunk out of his gourd, fails to notice until some dudes spot them, which presumably wakes him up enough to notice and realize just what this looks like and bolts.

He's guilty of being a frat boy who of failed to stop when his hook-up passed out, for which I think three months in jail is adequate.

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EzraS
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09 Sep 2019, 4:08 am

I think it is one thing when a man gets a woman drunk or drugs her to rape her, and quite another thing when both parties start out simultaneously drunk and or stoned.

cyberdad
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09 Sep 2019, 5:13 am

Wolfram87 wrote:

Your opinion doesn't change the fact the presiding judge was removed for his subjective leniency in the case including the fact Stanford law school was his alma mata and there was suspicion he might have invoked the Stanford "frat boy" code.

Also the allegation that she was complicit is not supported by her victim statement which I understand to be a legally binding document much like a statutory declaration
https://www.mamamia.com.au/brock-turner ... statement/

She did not recall any interaction with Brock Turner but later thought she might have rubbed his back which he took as a signal she was interested. Miller had a boyfriend and had no interest in him. Turner found her outside drunk (she must have tried to throw up in a dumpster) and he took advantage of her while unconcious. What is telling is that he lied when interviewed indicating he clearly was aware (despite being intoxicated) that he was committing a crime.

Wolfram87
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09 Sep 2019, 6:14 am

In the current climate, I'm hardly surprised that a judge was removed following a controversial ruling, regardless if everything was by the book. The outrage mob is a poweful force. Or have you flushed Duke lacrosse down the memory hole?

And why are you putting weight on what an amnesiac doesn't remember over what non-amnesiac witnesses do remember?

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cyberdad
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11 Sep 2019, 2:09 am

The #Metoo movement seems to be selective over who they are targeting

ASS-P
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11 Sep 2019, 11:28 am

Wolfram87 wrote:

...California law allows for a judge to be removed that way, whether you think that's good or no. It was legitimate, under the law.

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11 Sep 2019, 1:39 pm

Didn't say it was unlawful, I said it was unsurprising.

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