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Trump withdraws troops Turkey/Syrian border, Republicans mad

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auntblabby
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07 Oct 2019, 10:23 pm

poor Kurds... too many people of a cold-blooded bent are just saying "better them than me..." c'est dommage.



beneficii
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07 Oct 2019, 10:26 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
What were the promises?


At most, a country of their own.
At least, freedom from being ethnically cleansed.



How is the US supposed to accomplish that for them?

It sounds like the US is supposed to force the other countries to capitulate to the Kurds because the Kurds refuse to capitulate to them.


Freedom from ethnic cleansing is forcing other countries to capitulate to you? 8O :?


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Kraichgauer
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07 Oct 2019, 10:45 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
What were the promises?


At most, a country of their own.
At least, freedom from being ethnically cleansed.



How is the US supposed to accomplish that for them?

It sounds like the US is supposed to force the other countries to capitulate to the Kurds because the Kurds refuse to capitulate to them.


What beneficci said.


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LoveNotHate
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07 Oct 2019, 11:33 pm

This is "SUNK COST" fallacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost

"We've sunk so much money, time, effort, promises in trying help these people that we can't quit now".

That's precisely why we should get out.

Let the UN or someone else pay for this, if it's actually a problem.

OR as TRUMP proposes, we need new thinking, we need agreements with Turkey.


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EzraS
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08 Oct 2019, 2:03 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
What were the promises?


At most, a country of their own.
At least, freedom from being ethnically cleansed.



How is the US supposed to accomplish that for them?

It sounds like the US is supposed to force the other countries to capitulate to the Kurds because the Kurds refuse to capitulate to them.


What beneficci said.


I would much rather discuss this with you. I admittedly do not know much about this and am trying to get a better understanding of it. What ethnicity are the Kurds in comparison to their neighbors?



EzraS
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08 Oct 2019, 2:07 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
This is "SUNK COST" fallacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost

"We've sunk so much money, time, effort, promises in trying help these people that we can't quit now".

That's precisely why we should get out.

Let the UN or someone else pay for this, if it's actually a problem.

OR as TRUMP proposes, we need new thinking, we need agreements with Turkey.


Isn't that basically the same situation the US had with Vietnam?



cyberdad
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08 Oct 2019, 2:12 am

EzraS wrote:
I would much rather discuss this with you. I admittedly do not know much about this and am trying to get a better understanding of it. What ethnicity are the Kurds in comparison to their neighbors?


I thought you abhor bringing ethnicity into posts?



beneficii
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08 Oct 2019, 2:48 am

Trump in 2015 admitted he has a conflict of interest in Turkey called the Trump Towers:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/conflict ... 935edf5be0


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cyberdad
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08 Oct 2019, 3:32 am

As usual Trump looking after his commercial interests first when making foreign policy. Guess the Kurds know why they are being given to the Turks after putting their own bodies on the line to fight ISIS.



EzraS
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08 Oct 2019, 3:44 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I would much rather discuss this with you. I admittedly do not know much about this and am trying to get a better understanding of it. What ethnicity are the Kurds in comparison to their neighbors?


I thought you abhor bringing ethnicity into posts?


No I just get somewhat annoyed at times over you posting something about skin color on what seems a near daily basis, even in threads that have nothing to do with it.

That aside in this case I am trying to ascertain why ethnic cleansing is being brought up.



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08 Oct 2019, 3:47 am

Turks speak a Turko-Mongol language and the Kurds speak an Indo-Iranian language and the Syrians speak Arabic. Ethnically however they are genetically related (although the Kurds and the Yazidi are proud of their relatively fair complexions).



Wolfram87
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08 Oct 2019, 3:52 am

The Kurds are a discrete ethnic group separate from their neighbours, if that's what you're asking.


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EzraS
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08 Oct 2019, 3:54 am

cyberdad wrote:
Turks speak a Turko-Mongol language and the Kurds speak an Indo-Iranian language and the Syrians speak Arabic. Ethnically however they are genetically related (although the Kurds and the Yazidi are proud of their relatively fair complexions).


Not sure I understand. It seems like it is being said that Turkey, Syria, Iran and Armenia are united against the Kurds ethnicity wise even though they each speak different languages from each other, which is supposed to be the basis on which ethnicity is being determined.



beneficii
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08 Oct 2019, 3:55 am

cyberdad wrote:
Turks speak a Turko-Mongol language and the Kurds speak an Indo-Iranian language and the Syrians speak Arabic. Ethnically however they are genetically related (although the Kurds and the Yazidi are proud of their relatively fair complexions).


FYI, there is no confirmed Turco-Mongolic language family, so it would be more accurate to simply say that the Turks speak a Turkic language, which is the broadest accepted language family they're part of. And indeed, the Kurds speak an Indo-European language in the Indo-Iranian branch.


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cyberdad
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08 Oct 2019, 4:02 am

beneficii wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Turks speak a Turko-Mongol language and the Kurds speak an Indo-Iranian language and the Syrians speak Arabic. Ethnically however they are genetically related (although the Kurds and the Yazidi are proud of their relatively fair complexions).


FYI, there is no confirmed Turco-Mongolic language family, so it would be more accurate to simply say that the Turks speak a Turkic language, which is the broadest uncontroversial language family they're part of. And indeed, the Kurds speak an Indo-European language in the Indo-Iranian branch.


Normally don't disagree with your posts but Turkish language is part of the Uralic family of languages which includes languages as disparate as Mongolian/Japanese in the east and Hungarian, Estonian and Finnish in the west. A subgroup are the Altaic languages which specifically include Turkish and Mongolian. The latter is what I was referring to Turko-Mongol language group.

Genetically, however, the Turkish speaking populations of Anotolia are more closely related to Greeks and Armenians while the Turkish speaking Azerbaijanis are genetically Iranian. The central asian homeland of the Turks the Kazhakh and Uigher people are closer to the Mongols than their western cousins.



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08 Oct 2019, 4:06 am

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Turks speak a Turko-Mongol language and the Kurds speak an Indo-Iranian language and the Syrians speak Arabic. Ethnically however they are genetically related (although the Kurds and the Yazidi are proud of their relatively fair complexions).


Not sure I understand. It seems like it is being said that Turkey, Syria, Iran and Armenia are united against the Kurds ethnicity wise even though they each speak different languages from each other, which is supposed to be the basis on which ethnicity is being determined.


The Kurds were cheated out of their traditional ethnic homeland when the British and French drew up maps placating powerful Turkish and Syrian interests. The kurds have been agitating for a homeland which directly threatens the borders of Turkey and Syria. The Iranians and Armenians are sympathetic to the Kurds but are wary of their territorial ambitions and their tendency to form terrorist organisations like the PKK which were ironically banned by the US government for their attacks on Turkish civilians.