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Kraichgauer
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11 Oct 2019, 1:25 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I'm just saying it is unknown what the outcome of Nixon's impeachment would have been.
All one can do is speculate.
So there is no point in comparing Trump getting impeached to Nixon not getting impeached.


Nixon feared the worst, and so resigned. I suspect that might be the route Trump will take.


So you think Nixon and Trump are of the same temperament?


Nixon was extremely intelligent and thoughtful, but was plagued was extreme paranoia. Trump lacks that intelligence and self awareness (though he thinks he has that), and has a scattergun thought process, along with paranoia on top of that.


If Trump was impeached and convicted couldn't he be pardoned by Pence?
Nixon was pardoned by Ford a month after he resigned.
I'm sure he knew Ford could pardon him, so I don't see what he had to fear.
He said he was resigning for the good of the nation.


And Ford knew already that he had lost the next Presidential election because of that pardon. Pence can do what he wants, but his dreams of sitting in the White House will be short lived.


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EzraS
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11 Oct 2019, 2:37 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I'm just saying it is unknown what the outcome of Nixon's impeachment would have been.
All one can do is speculate.
So there is no point in comparing Trump getting impeached to Nixon not getting impeached.


Nixon feared the worst, and so resigned. I suspect that might be the route Trump will take.


So you think Nixon and Trump are of the same temperament?


Nixon was extremely intelligent and thoughtful, but was plagued was extreme paranoia. Trump lacks that intelligence and self awareness (though he thinks he has that), and has a scattergun thought process, along with paranoia on top of that.


If Trump was impeached and convicted couldn't he be pardoned by Pence?
Nixon was pardoned by Ford a month after he resigned.
I'm sure he knew Ford could pardon him, so I don't see what he had to fear.
He said he was resigning for the good of the nation.


And Ford knew already that he had lost the next Presidential election because of that pardon. Pence can do what he wants, but his dreams of sitting in the White House will be short lived.


Does Pence have dreams of sitting in the White House? Did he or Ford ever run for president before they were VP?



kraftiekortie
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11 Oct 2019, 3:08 am

Pence can pardon him for potential future prosecutions, like Ford pardoned Nixon.

He cannot prevent removal from office because of an impeachment conviction.



EzraS
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11 Oct 2019, 3:22 am

Maybe Pence will let Trump stew in jail until after he wins the election.



kraftiekortie
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11 Oct 2019, 3:25 am

Trump can’t go to jail as a result of an impeachment conviction. He can only be removed from office and prevented from seeking and obtaining future office.

Look up Article 2, Section 4 of the Constitution.



EzraS
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11 Oct 2019, 3:50 am

So what did Ford pardon Nixon from?



kraftiekortie
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11 Oct 2019, 4:30 am

Any future Federal prosecutions.



blazingstar
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11 Oct 2019, 6:09 am

It is unlikely Nixon resigned for the good of the nation. That is political speak, like resigning to spend more time with your family.

Ford's pardon was for the crimes Nixon committed. Criminal law, not impeachment which just removes someone from office.

Pence has always had high political aspirations. He's been waiting for this moment.


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11 Oct 2019, 6:39 am

It is true that a conviction of impeachment simply removes someone from office but the impeachment is going to be about a criminal act,in which case an indictment would follow.
I don't see Pence being so ambitious that he would't pardon Trump,nor do I even think that Ford's pardon of Nixon cost him the election.

The question that I wonder about is will Trumps Syria decision upset enough republicans that they would convict Trump of impeachment at trial.


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kraftiekortie
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11 Oct 2019, 7:27 am

Keep in mind: any pardon only applies to FEDERAL crimes.

If he’s convicted of a STATE charge, he’s SOL.



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11 Oct 2019, 8:37 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Keep in mind: any pardon only applies to FEDERAL crimes.

If he’s convicted of a STATE charge, he’s SOL.
He may be looking at some time in Dannemora.


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kraftiekortie
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11 Oct 2019, 9:31 am

Probably in a cushier place if convicted.



EzraS
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11 Oct 2019, 9:41 am

What is he going to be convicted of again?



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11 Oct 2019, 9:48 am

vermontsavant wrote:
It is true that a conviction of impeachment simply removes someone from office but the impeachment is going to be about a criminal act,in which case an indictment would follow.
I don't see Pence being so ambitious that he would't pardon Trump,nor do I even think that Ford's pardon of Nixon cost him the election.

The question that I wonder about is will Trumps Syria decision upset enough republicans that they would convict Trump of impeachment at trial.


From Wikipedia (and my memory; had to check with wiki first) Bolding is mine for emphasis.

The notion that only criminal conduct can constitute sufficient grounds for impeachment does not comport with either the views of the founders or with historical practice.[1] Alexander Hamilton, in Federalist 65, described impeachable offenses as arising from "the misconduct of public men, or in other words from the abuse or violation of some public trust."[3] Such offenses were "political, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself."[3] According to this reasoning, impeachable conduct could include behavior that violates an official's duty to the country, even if such conduct is not necessarily a prosecutable offense. Indeed, in the past both houses of Congress have given the phrase "high Crimes and Misdemeanors" a broad reading, finding that impeachable offenses need not be limited to criminal conduct.[4][1]


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11 Oct 2019, 12:29 pm

blazingstar wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
It is true that a conviction of impeachment simply removes someone from office but the impeachment is going to be about a criminal act,in which case an indictment would follow.
I don't see Pence being so ambitious that he would't pardon Trump,nor do I even think that Ford's pardon of Nixon cost him the election.

The question that I wonder about is will Trumps Syria decision upset enough republicans that they would convict Trump of impeachment at trial.


From Wikipedia (and my memory; had to check with wiki first) Bolding is mine for emphasis.

The notion that only criminal conduct can constitute sufficient grounds for impeachment does not comport with either the views of the founders or with historical practice.[1] Alexander Hamilton, in Federalist 65, described impeachable offenses as arising from "the misconduct of public men, or in other words from the abuse or violation of some public trust."[3] Such offenses were "political, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself."[3] According to this reasoning, impeachable conduct could include behavior that violates an official's duty to the country, even if such conduct is not necessarily a prosecutable offense. Indeed, in the past both houses of Congress have given the phrase "high Crimes and Misdemeanors" a broad reading, finding that impeachable offenses need not be limited to criminal conduct.[4][1]
This is true but it's unlikely that an impeachment and conviction would happen without a crime,the misconduct of public men is so vague any president could be said to be guilty of it.Same with violation of public trust.


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11 Oct 2019, 12:31 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Probably in a cushier place if convicted.
Maybe Mt. McGregor then.


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