United Methodist Church To Split Over Same-Sex Marriage

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05 Jan 2020, 12:18 am

I'm unable to open the link.

I'm encouraged by seeing the thread title which says the church is "split", meaning that not all congregants are against same-sex marriage and that many strive for change, reformation and acceptance. I haven't seen anyone comment on the fact that many people of all faiths and denominations are in favour of sex-same marriage or other more liberal theology, and that's why this split of the Methodist church has occurred. My church (Anglican / Church of England) is extremely accepting of all people including LGBTQ as well as gay marriage, and several of the clergy are women. The stereotypes and slurs that are perpetuated about religion being sexist, patriarchal and oppressive are very hurtful to people who strive for change, accept differences, and foster a spirit of goodwill to all.

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cyberdad
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05 Jan 2020, 12:21 am

EzraS wrote:

There are thousands of synagogues and mosques in the US. Not to mention Canada and Europe etc. How many are in favor of same-sex marriage?

Who cares. If a mosque or synagogue or church (let's stick to the topic of churches shall we Ezzy) oppose one of their members being gay then that person can (and should) leave, If they do anything to coerce or punish that person for their sexuality then they should be closed down and the parents/rabbi/mullah or priest go to jail. Simple isn't it.

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05 Jan 2020, 12:25 am

cyberdad wrote:

Borromeo wrote:

Oddly enough one of the toughest but happiest people I've ever seen was a lesbian Catholic. She was a lot more Catholic than I am

I have also met and worked with gay people who hate themselves because they desire to conform. Some of the biggest racists on the alt-right are also proudly gay (met a few of those as well). So loving a god who might smite them for their lifestyle is a contradiction they are willing to live with to be loved.

Borromeo wrote:

I think religion is something we submit ourselves to because we believe it's the right thing to do.

Have you heard the saying "hell is paved with good intentions"? a lot of psychopaths and sociopaths who follow cults think they are doing the "right thing". That's why critical thinking is so liberating for conservatives.

I forgot to mention she was celibate and derived a lot of good from that lifestyle--the regulations didn't bother her so she just lived by 'em. End of story.

The saying is "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." (Martin Luther.) But that seems to be the last thing that the road to hell could be paved with. (Luke 12:48) Now what I like is "The road to hell is paved with the bones of priests and monks, and the skulls of bishops are the lampposts that light the path." (Attributed to St. John Chrysostom.) He is not anticlerical, but is simply stating that the erring clergy are the ones who will do the most danger to the faithful.

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05 Jan 2020, 12:26 am

cyberdad wrote:

EzraS wrote:

There are thousands of synagogues and mosques in the US. Not to mention Canada and Europe etc. How many are in favor of same-sex marriage?

Why should religions bend their beliefs to public opinion? If that's so, then the supreme authority is state law. In that society religion could not legally exist.

I note you mentioned mullahs. Hardly sticking to the topic of churches.

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05 Jan 2020, 12:30 am

cyberdad wrote:

EzraS wrote:

There are thousands of synagogues and mosques in the US. Not to mention Canada and Europe etc. How many are in favor of same-sex marriage?

Would coercion in your world include speaking such things from the pulpit and if so jail clerics for preaching such things?

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05 Jan 2020, 12:32 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Many mainstream churches in America are not accepting of same-sex marriage. It’s an ongoing problem that involves a huge number of people.

Methodists are fairly liberal compared to other Christian churches so the fact that this is still an issue with them says something about the broader culture.

The stereotype exists for a reason unfortunately.

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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 05 Jan 2020, 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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05 Jan 2020, 12:33 am

cyberdad wrote:

EzraS wrote:

There are thousands of synagogues and mosques in the US. Not to mention Canada and Europe etc. How many are in favor of same-sex marriage?

Who is being coerced and punished within the United Methodist church?

And stop calling me Ezzy. You're obviously doing it to disparage me.

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05 Jan 2020, 12:37 am

Do the people who continually criticise religion or shame other groups of people go to jail too?
Is this only for clerics or is it an equal opportunity imprisonment?

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EzraS
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05 Jan 2020, 12:39 am

Borromeo wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

EzraS wrote:

There are thousands of synagogues and mosques in the US. Not to mention Canada and Europe etc. How many are in favor of same-sex marriage?

I think sticking with one branch of a world-wide trinary religion while excluding the other two branches as off topic, is like saying only the United Methodists church can be discussed in this thread.

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05 Jan 2020, 12:42 am

Borromeo wrote:

I forgot to mention she was celibate

Which is what she tells people I guess. I spent 12 years in a catholic school and pretty sure celibacy would mean she is cured of her sin :lol:

Borromeo wrote:

saying is "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." (Martin Luther.) But that seems to be the last thing that the road to hell could be paved with. (Luke 12:48) Now what I like is "The road to hell is paved with the bones of priests and monks, and the skulls of bishops are the lampposts that light the path." (Attributed to St. John Chrysostom.) He is not anticlerical, but is simply stating that the erring clergy are the ones who will do the most danger to the faithful.

Thanks! I would add that the erring clergy have also been dangerous (historically) to the "heathen" as well...

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05 Jan 2020, 12:48 am

Borromeo wrote:

Why should religions bend their beliefs to public opinion? If that's so, then the supreme authority is state law. In that society religion could not legally exist.

I'm afraid this debate is currently a hot issue in Australian religious schools. Religious schools want the right to expel students or staff who are gay or trans but legally they cannot as it is an act of discrimination which is against the law. I personally would stop funding these schools using taxpayers money if they want to arbitrarily pick and choose who they allow into their schools.

Borromeo wrote:

I note you mentioned mullahs. Hardly sticking to the topic of churches.

That was for Ezra's benefit since he dragged muslims into this debate

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05 Jan 2020, 12:50 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Do the people who continually criticise religion or shame other groups of people go to jail too?
Is this only for clerics or is it an equal opportunity imprisonment?

Check your legal system. In Australia you can't discriminate against somebody for their religious belief. I myself believe in fairies and aliens.

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05 Jan 2020, 12:51 am

EzraS wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

EzraS wrote:

There are thousands of synagogues and mosques in the US. Not to mention Canada and Europe etc. How many are in favor of same-sex marriage?

Who is being coerced and punished within the United Methodist church?

And stop calling me Ezzy. You're obviously doing it to disparage me.

They are split on the issue of whether considering whether gay people are humans...so it does include them...Ezra

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05 Jan 2020, 12:52 am

I do think that the government needs to revoke religious institutions’ tax exempt status.

Sometimes it will with churches that have had extremely obvious issues, but there are still plenty that are tax exempt that are highly discriminatory (or even money-making schemes) that the government should probably not want to endorse in this way.

I think we might slowly be headed in that direction.

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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 05 Jan 2020, 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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05 Jan 2020, 12:54 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:

I would think a 13 million member denomination splitting would be cause for celebration rather than condemnation.

As a rule of thumb in a Christian church all should be welcome. But the Christian church saying homosexuality is alright is basically the same as it saying fornication and adultery are alright, as far as the tenets of the Christian faith goes. They basically need to write their own bible.

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05 Jan 2020, 12:57 am

EzraS wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

It always gets extremely tricky trying to figure out what books of the Bible (and which portions of those) that a person or religion decides that they want to follow.

I’m sure something similar could be said of other religious texts like the Quran.

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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 05 Jan 2020, 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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