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Kraichgauer
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17 Jan 2020, 8:36 pm

Misslizard wrote:
China has no turtles left, they devoured them all supposing they promote longevity.


:o :o :x :cry: :cry: :evil: :skull:


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cyberdad
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17 Jan 2020, 10:10 pm

Misslizard wrote:
China has no turtles left, they devoured them all supposing they promote longevity.


To be fair it's one soft shell species that's extinct. The Chinese government is funding breeding programs, particularly for Marine turtles.

There are also groups trying to save turtle populations
http://www.china.org.cn/china/2018-05/2 ... 510412.htm



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17 Jan 2020, 10:40 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
China has no turtles left, they devoured them all supposing they promote longevity.


To be fair it's one soft shell species that's extinct. The Chinese government is funding breeding programs, particularly for Marine turtles.

There are also groups trying to save turtle populations
http://www.china.org.cn/china/2018-05/2 ... 510412.htm

Umm, I’ll have to dig out my International Reptile Conservation Fund journal to give you the totals but no, most are gone.
They were trying to breed China Girl,one of the last Yangtze River turtles but she is old and I think maybe only two males left.


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cyberdad
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17 Jan 2020, 10:46 pm

Misslizard wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
China has no turtles left, they devoured them all supposing they promote longevity.


To be fair it's one soft shell species that's extinct. The Chinese government is funding breeding programs, particularly for Marine turtles.

There are also groups trying to save turtle populations
http://www.china.org.cn/china/2018-05/2 ... 510412.htm

Umm, I’ll have to dig out my International Reptile Conservation Fund journal to give you the totals but no, most are gone.
They were trying to breed China Girl,one of the last Yangtze River turtles but she is old and I think maybe only two males left.


Yes I think that's one of the rare species. But I don't dispute other species might be in danger due to population/habitat/food

BTW have you heard of the Passenger pigeon and American Bison? once both species were common all over the American plains. Both of these animals were hunted by American settlers The bison numbers dropped from 30 million to 300 in the space of a few decades. The passenger pigeon once was so common they used to blot out the sun. Today they are extinct.



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17 Jan 2020, 11:05 pm

Yes, I saw the last stuffed passenger pigeon at the St.Louis zoo.I think they called her Martha.
So,IRCF Journal of Reptiles and Amphibians conservation and natural history Sept 2009.
Big Headed Terrapin last seen in 1960, might still exist, but not if a hungry person finds it first.
Black Necked Terrapin, same as above.
Chinese Soft shelled turtle, vanished in the wild, now just farmed for food.
Three banded box terrapin last seen in wild 1984.
In all, around twenty species of reptiles and amphibians are assumed vanished or extinct.Most eaten out of existence.
They began to eye our turtles,
biologist Dale Jackson is quoted as saying, “If we allowed it, the Chinese— more than one billion Chinese —-could and probably would eat every single turtle in existence in Florida in one year.”
Florida now has strict regulations on turtle harvests.


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cyberdad
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17 Jan 2020, 11:17 pm

Misslizard wrote:
biologist Dale Jackson is quoted as saying, “If we allowed it, the Chinese— more than one billion Chinese —-could and probably would eat every single turtle in existence in Florida in one year.”
Florida now has strict regulations on turtle harvests.


Good to hear. BTW as a reptile boffin what do you think about the python epidemic in the Florida everglades?



Misslizard
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17 Jan 2020, 11:44 pm

Feel bad for the snakes and the stuff they are eating.I don’t see how they can stop them from multiplying, hard to control anything that gets loose in a swampy area.


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Pepe
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18 Jan 2020, 2:28 am

Misslizard wrote:
China has no turtles left, they devoured them all supposing they promote longevity.



Eating turtles making turtles live longer? :scratch:
I see an inherent flaw in that concept. :mrgreen:



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18 Jan 2020, 2:35 am

Misslizard wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
China has no turtles left, they devoured them all supposing they promote longevity.


To be fair it's one soft shell species that's extinct. The Chinese government is funding breeding programs, particularly for Marine turtles.

There are also groups trying to save turtle populations
http://www.china.org.cn/china/2018-05/2 ... 510412.htm

Umm, I’ll have to dig out my International Reptile Conservation Fund journal to give you the totals but no, most are gone.
They were trying to breed China Girl,one of the last Yangtze River turtles but she is old and I think maybe only two males left.


You do understand why I don't have a problem with extinction?
Are you religious?



Misslizard
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18 Jan 2020, 11:11 am

Pepe wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
China has no turtles left, they devoured them all supposing they promote longevity.


To be fair it's one soft shell species that's extinct. The Chinese government is funding breeding programs, particularly for Marine turtles.

There are also groups trying to save turtle populations
http://www.china.org.cn/china/2018-05/2 ... 510412.htm

Umm, I’ll have to dig out my International Reptile Conservation Fund journal to give you the totals but no, most are gone.
They were trying to breed China Girl,one of the last Yangtze River turtles but she is old and I think maybe only two males left.


You do understand why I don't have a problem with extinction?
Are you religious?

I’m a lazy Buddhist/pagan.
It’s all suffering,it’s the main truth of existence.


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cyberdad
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18 Jan 2020, 6:43 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Feel bad for the snakes and the stuff they are eating.I don’t see how they can stop them from multiplying, hard to control anything that gets loose in a swampy area.


They are beautiful animals. However irresponsible pet owners have allowed their feral population to explode causing ecosystem damage. Despite their numbers they are remarkably difficult to find in the swamp vegetation.



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18 Jan 2020, 9:19 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
China has no turtles left, they devoured them all supposing they promote longevity.


To be fair it's one soft shell species that's extinct. The Chinese government is funding breeding programs, particularly for Marine turtles.

There are also groups trying to save turtle populations
http://www.china.org.cn/china/2018-05/2 ... 510412.htm

Umm, I’ll have to dig out my International Reptile Conservation Fund journal to give you the totals but no, most are gone.
They were trying to breed China Girl,one of the last Yangtze River turtles but she is old and I think maybe only two males left.


You do understand why I don't have a problem with extinction?
Are you religious?

I’m a lazy Buddhist/pagan.
It’s all suffering,it’s the main truth of existence.


And do you agree that it isn't good enough?
And do you agree, that ultimately, it is our own selfishness that wants the continuation of endangered species?

N.B.
I am using the word "selfishness" in a non-judgemental fashion.



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18 Jan 2020, 9:59 pm

Pepe wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
China has no turtles left, they devoured them all supposing they promote longevity.


To be fair it's one soft shell species that's extinct. The Chinese government is funding breeding programs, particularly for Marine turtles.

There are also groups trying to save turtle populations
http://www.china.org.cn/china/2018-05/2 ... 510412.htm

Umm, I’ll have to dig out my International Reptile Conservation Fund journal to give you the totals but no, most are gone.
They were trying to breed China Girl,one of the last Yangtze River turtles but she is old and I think maybe only two males left.


You do understand why I don't have a problem with extinction?
Are you religious?

I’m a lazy Buddhist/pagan.
It’s all suffering,it’s the main truth of existence.


And do you agree that it isn't good enough?
And do you agree, that ultimately, it is our own selfishness that wants the continuation of endangered species?

N.B.
I am using the word "selfishness" in a non-judgemental fashion.


Maybe responsibility rather than selfishness would be a better word?


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Misslizard
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18 Jan 2020, 10:18 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Feel bad for the snakes and the stuff they are eating.I don’t see how they can stop them from multiplying, hard to control anything that gets loose in a swampy area.


They are beautiful animals. However irresponsible pet owners have allowed their feral population to explode causing ecosystem damage. Despite their numbers they are remarkably difficult to find in the swamp vegetation.

Some were released by irresponsible owners but some also escaped from homes,pet shops and breeding facilities when hurricanes hit.
It’s too late now, but they should never have been sold in the pet trade.Some amphibian species like the African Clawed frog are banned in some states because they escape and proliferate to the detriment of other frogs.They just take over the pools and eat the native frogs.Similar to the cane toad problem.Strangly you can buy cane toads as pets here.
They used the African frogs in labs for pregnancy tests years ago and when there was a better procedure the kind hearted but not thinking ahead lab workers turned the frogs loose.
There is an island that was used as a film set and they brought in some snakes for the movie, then released them out of kindness.There were no snakes native so the snakes multiplied and ate everything and will now starve.Sorry I don’t remember the name and it would take forever to find the article in my journal collection.
Sometimes we think we are doing the right thing and it just goes horribly wrong.
Don’t even get me going on invasive plants.It’s a constant battle.


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Misslizard
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18 Jan 2020, 10:26 pm

Pepe wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
China has no turtles left, they devoured them all supposing they promote longevity.


To be fair it's one soft shell species that's extinct. The Chinese government is funding breeding programs, particularly for Marine turtles.

There are also groups trying to save turtle populations
http://www.china.org.cn/china/2018-05/2 ... 510412.htm

Umm, I’ll have to dig out my International Reptile Conservation Fund journal to give you the totals but no, most are gone.
They were trying to breed China Girl,one of the last Yangtze River turtles but she is old and I think maybe only two males left.


You do understand why I don't have a problem with extinction?
Are you religious?

I’m a lazy Buddhist/pagan.
It’s all suffering,it’s the main truth of existence.


And do you agree that it isn't good enough?
And do you agree, that ultimately, it is our own selfishness that wants the continuation of endangered species?

N.B.
I am using the word "selfishness" in a non-judgemental fashion.

I think I see what you mean,we want them to exist for ourselves.
Also guilt, and kindness play a part.
If people gave up eating meat all the animals we use for food would go extinct most likely, since we would have no use to breed them and being domesticated they couldn’t survive on their own.Except for hogs which are now invasive.The only reason a fat white flightless turkey that can’t even breed naturally exists is we want Butterball for dinner.They usually get to heavy to stand there at the end.It would be a mercy if they went extinct.


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Pepe
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18 Jan 2020, 10:51 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
And do you agree, that ultimately, it is our own selfishness that wants the continuation of endangered species?

N.B.
I am using the word "selfishness" in a non-judgemental fashion.


Maybe responsibility rather than selfishness would be a better word?


I'm not sure I know what you mean.

A person's weltanschauung(world outlook) has a lot to do with the issue I am bringing into focus here.
I see the extinction of a species is an end to its suffering.
And since I see no inherent meaning in life,
To me, it is pointless suffering to force its continued existence.

Q: Why do I even care about suffering?
A: My Genetic coding as a result of the evolutionary process.

Q: Why do people want to save a species from extinction?
A: Refer to answer above, in addition to social conditioning which attaches meaning to this sort of caring.

Most people have an instinctual desire to nurture.
But in some cases, it might be a little misguided or self-centred.

Bringing a higher intellectual component into consideration, which transcends the emotional/instinctual aspects, allows for an alternate more objective perspective.
In this case,
The mitigation of suffering in this finite, irrelevant and ultimately meaningless life system.

In conclusion:
Breathing "life" into a dying species may seem objectively altruistic,
But isn't it really a desire to satisfy an innate, personal, and dare I say, selfish act of an individual, in a moral sense?



Last edited by Pepe on 19 Jan 2020, 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.