New Alabama law would require vasectomies

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The amendment is to make the abortion law unpassable or more vito likely by the governor,unless the Alabama governor has the line item vito.

Wrong again. HB238 is not an amendment, it is a bill unto itself.



Also, the word is “veto”, not “vito”.

Well so far no pro life people seem to have any sort of explanation as to why they think someone like me who doesn't want children should be forced to have a baby, why not leave baby having to people that want them? I am curious.

If I had one I would just have to give it up to adoption and then still be in debt for hospital costs or whatever.

--This is actually a valid and important question.

I don't represent the monolithic side of pro-life movement very well, of course. Typical Aspie here--I can't do an "opinion package;" I just support what I believe to be the right thing to do. I'm opposed to abortion on moral ground & the same with contraceptives. But then again I don't mind a little social welfare going out to people in need...okay, maybe a lot if necessary.

You don't have to be pro-System to be pro-life. I oppose (speaking only as one man; haven't been able to get to a protest rally any time soon & see what the other people are voicing, but at the last one there was a lot of talk for charities for mothers) oppose abortion at any trimester. However, I also oppose forcing women to pay for all the stuff if they cannot afford that.

I only want to see a humane future for people: we shouldn't be forced into having children; we shouldn't kill unborn ones out of convenience or anything else.

The slogan I've been seeing lately is "Pro-life, pro-woman." Slogans don't mean anything to me...but the rise of interest in activists caring for new mothers means quite a bit.

Here in Texas, a state rep named Jessica Farrar proposed a law that would ban sex, to keep people from getting pregnant.

The law was not passed.

That is pretty crazy, but Farrar is a Democrat...

Well you certainly seem much more reasonable than a lot of people who consider themselves to be pro-life. I mean it is a difficult topic and it would be insane to expect everyone to have the exact same opinions on it. Also though contraceptives largely reduce abortions...I mean its like even if a person doesn't like it for whatever reason or sees it as immoral, seems it would still make sense to support legislation that makes them more available since it will result in less abortions. Which for the person who takes issue with contraceptives and abortion, I have to assume they'd see an abortion as being a bit worse than contraceptives sometimes you gotta go with a lesser evil I suppose(at least my opinion).

Also I cannot say I 'like' abortion and it would be interesting to see if someday, they could somehow be a thing of the past...but there would have to be a surefire way to prevent unwanted pregnancies part of that solution may have to be contraceptives. Abstinence isn't going to work, no way in hell are people going to stop having sex to avoid pregnancy.

But it can certainly be hard to separate from personal morality, like Idk sometimes if I hear of someone committing some atrocious crime like a brutal murder. I will feel like they deserve the death penalty...like my own morality tells me 'someone does something like that, they deserve to die'. But at the same time I have certainly seen good arguments against having the death penalty so even if morally I think it makes sense, it certainly is hard to ignore that it is actually rather ineffective at deterring violent crime.

Maybe the pro-life side & the pro-choice side aren't entirely so far apart really; there is a side to each that behaves like mad dogs and a side that does have a human touch to it. Thanks for the info on your position to it all. Hopefully my Democrat joke didn't upset anyone; I don't much like politicians but need to do more to lose the biases.

Personal morality is a new concept to me; objectivist philosophers treat the world as rights & wrongs but subjectivism (to which it appears the concept of personal morality is corollary) treats all things as personal decisions. The old medievals said "Virtus in medio stat:" "virtue is in the middle." I feel like my position is pretty close to center--if I sound like a pro-life nut job, well, I might be one & proud of it but I'm sure that both you & I could tell stories about the "pro-lifers" who literally seem to hate humanity.

My beef with contraception is that some of the methods like the morning-after pill result in making the womb "No Country for young Zygotes" which, since the fertilized egg is where we hold that life begins, makes it tough to justify...even though it's not really big, it's still alive (else it wouldn't grow) and it would develop into an adult human being if it went through gestation, survived being born, grew up, and survived doing dumb stuff in adolescence.
Regular birth control doesn't appeal either, for it messes with the woman's natural cycle and tampering with that just to keep her body from doing normal woman stuff is wrong IMHO...
Can't say mechanical contraceptives are quite as evil, but they do seem to have a problem of their own. "Treating women as sex objects" is what I hear a lot of from the women in the pro-life movement...they seem in many cases to have gotten very vocal even against condoms. I get it, they can stop infections from spreading, but women argue (and men too) that it's just "pump & dump" with extra steps.

There are a lot of arguments out there for both sides; I go for the one I believe to hold the least practical, but most morally sound, position. The contraceptive debate can come second; we need a way where every child can be wanted. It's not likely to ever happen, but we can & should fight for a world of kindness and charity to others. As far as the rising population, I think the world will have to be a different place in 50 years...maybe we can make it work.

I agree with you on the fact that no one really "likes" abortion; I don't really like the idea of unplanned pregnancies or the spread of false masculinity that proves itself through sexual dominance. Schoolchildren are acting suggestively, people have gotten quite comfortable with the idea of "dark humor" (excuse me, rape and murder aren't funny) the world's flooded with pornographic materials encouraging men to violence and objectification, and I think the widespread acceptance of abortion is a symptom of the growing dehumanization of the world. Makes it tough for people who can't stand up for themselves...I was thinking the unborn & the elderly, but "autistics" would fit too. We might have to make a strong case both for the autistic community & for all the rest of us getting the short end of the stick.

Most people I know are in favour of abortion being legal, which of course doesn't mean they "like" abortions , they just see them as a necessary or lesser evil.

To make those of us who hold this position reconsider, it would be absolutely necessary (as a first step) to radically change the way us, as a society, deal with unwanted children, because the way things are now might be better than in the past but still a disaster and is dooming too many of them to a fate often worse than death. Sure, some make it, but those who judge from the sidelines have no idea whatsoever at what cost.

While things improved, there's still a double standard regarding reproductive rights and decisions: to give just one example, very few people take issue with men having a vasectomy, while a lot of childless/free women under 40 are still refused the similar procedure.

Once a man here told me that the essence of the gender wars (observed here along the years in all their nasty glory) lies with reproductive rights. Maybe by the time we manage to produce babies in a lab, people will manage to get along better and even acknowledge the other sex as being part of the same species (sarcasm)

@BenderRodriguez: I believe that you might have summed up the whole heart of the divide between the pro-life and pro-choice camps. The pro-life side I don't presume to speak for; I happen to be against abortion (and contraception, and vasectomy/hysterectomy unless necessary by medical reasons otherwise it's mutilation. Whole new argument there...which I'm staying out of.)

It is not true that the ends justify the means: in other words, we cannot do something bad so that a greater good may come of it.

However, that's a very popular opinion held these days and a lot of people were brought up on it. Doesn't make it right but it certainly makes that side easier to understand.

What exactly do you have against a vasectomy,I had one at age 41 and I am fine and happy with it,I don't they should be forced on people but having a vasectomy is a good life choice for lots of men.

As a side note, I wasn't referring to a hysterectomy, but tying the fallopian tubes - a much less invasive procedure, dome through laparoscopy these days.

I understand and respect your position (you're not a typical pro-lifer by a far stretch) - obviously given my age my opinion is not something I grew up with, more of an opinion I formed as one of the unwanted children by both parents and society.

I'm deadset against "the end justifies the means" and I really hope we'll find a better way in the future than having to choose between abortion and forced pregnancy

I had one too after we were done with the baby-making.

You feel like you got kicked in the nuts for a few days but a bit Tylenol takes care of any pain.In general a quick procedure,in and out in 45 minutes ,all in all very simple and easy.

I'm just glad you weren't incapacitated for too long and they didn't miss with the knife! Boy would that be awful.

This really is odd but actually puts us back on topic; vasectomies seem like a great idea but the reason I mentioned them as yet another thing to which I am opposed (there is a huge list if I'd only write it down) is because:

(warning, medieval-minded maundering)

-To mutilate or destroy the design of our bodies goes against human nature. Sex is pretty natural. It's a healthy and normal thing to do: marry and start reproducing. Not to mention it is the most basic of all the fun you can make at home. What isn't natural is altering the body to where it can't do what it naturally does.
-To have purposefully sterile sex is not fully giving over of one's self to the spouse, and this seemingly trivial breach of manners is a crime against the real self-giving nature of love. Which is extremely poor taste, and considered a grave sin if someone knows good and well that love is so serious but then thwarts Nature's chance of reproducing humanity (in one-off unique copies.)

Not all sex results in pregnancies, of course; thankfully there are entire times of the month where women aren't fertile and from what I hear they seem to rather enjoy that...so do their husbands. (The ones who don't want constant pregnancies monitor the calendar, the ones who want natural birth regulation that actually WORKS check temperature, cervical mucus, and the calendar as well...so they might not get to do it all the time but they aren't lacking for intimacy either.) The only real problem is when sex is interfered with, by altering the body, or by getting in the way, or by being Alabama and coming up with a ridiculous bill to force all men to alter their bodies in a serious way...it would be just as bad if they proposed that women all get their tubes tied; a mutilation of one of the human body's most wonderful capabilities.

This probably sounds really like crazy talk, but that's what I have heard. Seems to make sense to me.

I wish that forced pregnancies weren't a thing...I don't mean "let's have abortions" because not even my cold heart is OK with killing people, but I mean "let's not have women forced to be pregnant." We as a society are altogether too callous and free with the idea of sex being not just a natural thing (which it is) but a social requirement; we no longer live within our sexual means and from what I've heard from a lot of guys it has taken some of the romance off of romance. That's unfortunate. Now our only free entertainment will be YouTube and it has advertisements.