Sending in the national guard worked.

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funeralxempire
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08 Jun 2020, 1:25 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

It’s really terrible that you have to deal with this sort of person.

I’ve known similar people myself.

He's your president. All I can do is beg you guys to fix it. :lol:

(I'm only laughing to keep from crying.)

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sly279
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08 Jun 2020, 2:09 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

The issue here is the fact that the military shouldn’t intervene in civilian affairs. This idea is fundamental in a democracy.

When the military does intervene, there tends to be despotism.

No it iesnrl the fundamental of democracy is thst we vote for our leaders and nothing else. The military serves the elected government. We’re the only democratic nation these has constitution and forbids use of federal military on our soil. The UK doesn’t, Germany doesn’t, France doesn’t, most if not all of Europe doesn’t.

I don’t think any of those nations even have something similar to national guard(which is the military by the way)
Are they not democracies?

Now I’d agree they aren’t free. As they have far less freedoms then us, but I wouldn’t call the uk or France despotism

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magz
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08 Jun 2020, 2:13 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

The police are not fully trained in military tactics. Their objective is to protect the public, and be more purely “defensive” than the military. The military is charged with protecting a nation from foreign invasion, and invading another country.

In the US, there is only local and state police, not a national police force.

The FBI comes closest—but is more investigatory, and has no jurisdiction in state crimes (which comprise most of the crimes in the US).

The US has both state crimes and federal crimes. State prisons and federal prisons.

If there’s a national police, there are differences vis-a-vis a country’s military—but, yes, the differences, in practice, are more blurry in practice in these places.

We have army, national police and city guard.
The army has its own internal police. There was a controversial decision to send army's police to help enforce lockdowns in the beginning of the outbreak. My husband encountered them, they just told him to go home. It was probably caused by temporary shortages of regular officers, it came back to normal quite soon.
National police deals with crimes and human-related threats.
City guards deal with minor offences and homeless dogs. They can't arrest people.

Using the army against people last time happened in the 1981-1983, with Martial Law. The whole affair had about 40 casualties so obviously the army wasn't eager to shoot at people, it was mainly a demonstration of force and action.
The army is often sent to help during natural disasters, as a source of well-organized lots of people with lots of equipment.

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kraftiekortie
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08 Jun 2020, 3:52 pm

The military in those countries Sly mentioned can only intervene under extreme circumstances.....and then only as “support” for the civil authorities. For all intents and purposes, it’s quite similar to how the military could be used on US soil.

The National Guard is military....but it’s not “regular” military. Not even equivalent to the Reserves

kraftiekortie
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08 Jun 2020, 3:56 pm

I see. Funeral is using metaphor. Should have known that

I took him literally.

Individual Yanks are not like that, though. They are mostly decent people, too.

Trump is a jerk. Individual Yanks are not Trump.

sly279
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08 Jun 2020, 5:15 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

You mean like how france used the military against protesters? Or how just about every European airport has Troops?
Imagine if instead of TSA we used marines.

The national guard has the exacty same training , equipment and combat experience.
Most have seen combat in Middle East. The only difference is they answer to the governor not president and when not in combat they not active but most active infantry sit around waiting to be deployed.
The national guard are just state run military. Some states even have tanks and jets.
My state has 2 fighter wings. They active duty.
Hold over of what caused the civil war. If our nation split they’d have to defend each state from the others.
So there’s no real difference between a combat heavily armed army soldier and a identical combat heavily armed national guard soldiers.
National guard are army reserves. They wear the army branch name, can and have been made active.
No different then marine reservist.

So would you rather have combat infantry reservist used or specialized military police units. Ones trained to shoot to kill the other is trained to arrest people.

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Pepe
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09 Jun 2020, 10:44 pm

magz wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

The issue here is the fact that the military shouldn’t intervene in civilian affairs. This idea is fundamental in a democracy.

When the military does intervene, there tends to be despotism.

Just rename "the military" to something like "crisis police"

Makes me think of a question: what is the fundamental difference between the military and the police? Where can this boundary get blurred?

You volunteering?
You seemed to be excited about the idea.

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09 Jun 2020, 10:51 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Pepe wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Pepe wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

The last I heard, the protests were still going on.

They are, and the reduction of violence likely has nothing to do with Trump. Threatening more police brutality to deal with protests about police brutality seems like dumping a lot of gasoline on a fire in hopes of putting it out.

And yet, Trumps "Gasoline" didn't inflame the, errr, flames.
You do realise your comment contradicted itself, right? :wink:

Trump didn't provide the gasoline, it was never poured. He threatened to pour gasoline. So far it hasn't occurred and he was condemned by some former generals. How again did my statement contradict itself?

Trump said something,
Hence, outrage. :wink:

BTW,
Does anyone take seriously what is said on the American media about politics?
The whole world is laughing.

I wish I lived far enough away from it that I could just find it comical. I'm living upstairs from a madman who's willing to burn the whole house down to make the people living under his control stop pointing out his flaws. Living upstairs from this means it will almost certainly harm my home too. If a hero decides to put the rabid animal down nothing of value will have been lost.

I am not a Trump fan.
I am an objective person.

There have been incidences where Trump could have flexed "his" military muscle,
But he didn't.
He is more interested in making America strong economically than involving himself in war scenarios, unlike the Bush Jr. administration.

funeralxempire
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10 Jun 2020, 1:15 am

Pepe wrote:

I don't disagree that Trump could be worse but he'd also really have to try.

Pepe
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10 Jun 2020, 2:41 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Pepe wrote:

I don't disagree that Trump could be worse but he'd also really have to try.

Domestically, Trump hasn't done much for those in need, in regard to healthcare, though the job situation is better for them.

You may have noticed,
I have a problem with the aggressiveness of china, so I am happy with any American President who is putting pressure
on their bullying.
Based on what Fnord posted recently, the Democrats intend to kowtow to china via getting rid of tariffs.
Rather than say I am a Trump supporter, I'll say I am in favour of some of his policies.

Kiprobalhato
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10 Jun 2020, 2:55 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

their objective is to stop, harass and beat the s**t out of as many people as they need to in order to fill their quota. that's how they get paid. "and some of them, i'm sure, are good people"

i remember reading something about 1/3rd of police officers on FB are members of a white supremacist group, or something of the sort.

so many people in the police scoff and ostracize those showing any signs of real intelligence or empathy. you can get turned away, it doesn't matter if you are "not trained in military tactics", if you give someone with a violent, impulsive character and with less training than a licensed barber, a military style weapon, bad things are going to happen.

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magz
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15 Jun 2020, 3:56 am

Kiprobalhato wrote:

their objective is to stop, harass and beat the s**t out of as many people as they need to in order to fill their quota.

In my country, there was a practice of going to the streets on Saturday late night and catch drunk people riding bicycles in order to improve statistics without risking confrontation with real criminals.
After heavy criticism, the practice become rarer.
But we lack token scapegoats for the police.

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sly279
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15 Jun 2020, 5:16 am

Kiprobalhato wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Thst was about one group on fb not all cops on Facebook.
I think we as aspies should understand why it’s best nit to generalize and blame whole group for actions of a few. Or are we all mass murders?

Personally I’m glad to see some actual reform happening as some of the protesters realize they need to push for laws. Hopefully loads of democrat passed laws can be overturned . We should support the push for a federal remove of allowing no nick warrants. It’d be better if we banned night warrants too. It’s one step on a long road.

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funeralxempire
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15 Jun 2020, 12:37 pm

sly279 wrote:

I think we as aspies should understand why it’s best nit to generalize and blame whole group for actions of a few.

I'd think as aspies we'd be willing to speak the truth when there's an obvious and glaring pattern, but feinted naivete makes it easier to pretend like it's not our problem.

It's not just a few bad apples, it's a systemic issue.

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