Page 2 of 2 [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Brictoria
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,998
Location: Melbourne, Australia

19 Jun 2020, 3:51 am

auntblabby wrote:
smudge wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
:evil: so those flatfoots are saying, "let us beat you up with malice aforethought, or we'll just go on strike and show you sheeple" - that is infuriating bloodyminded behavior of those fascist pigs. if i were in charge i would SO FIRE THOSE BASTARDS and blackball them from future police work. if just about EVERY OTHER western nation's police force can be FAR more professional and maintain FAR higher standards, why can't our police forces do likewise? americans deserve far FAR BETTER. :x


It's charisma, some deception and putting on a face that gets people put in charge, not just in the police. You would never be put in charge in the first place. That's not an attack on you of course. :) And I'll add to the above, about 99% of people aren't able to tell the deception these people put on, or they're too scared to "stir things up" and rile up the group. That's how most people operate.

i'm just TIRED of common american citizens [the 99%] getting the sh***y end of the stick [compared to the rest of the west] on so many things- substandard health care, substandard food, substandard privacy, substandard police work that treats us like an occupying army, etc.


The problem is: none of the things you want are free: Every other citizen in other countries pays for them.

In Australia, we have private and public hospitals - public hospitals are state-run and funded through taxation revenue (hence "free"), but you can be waiting for 6 or more hours in the "waiting area" of the "emergency department" at one of them before even seeing a doctor (both my wife and daughter each have a number of serious medical conditions, so I am quite used to these rooms).
In the USA, you have lower taxes, so the money "saved" through this can be set aside "in case of need", or invested in health insurance (something most people here are also forced to have, even with the "free" healthcare), but as I understand it, the time between arrival at one of your hospital emergency departments and seeing a doctor are considerably less.

Similarly, taxes here cover the "free" or "subsidized" visits to a GP and certain medication (with pensioners (including disability pension)\unemployed receiving greater subsidies) which is managed by the federal government, whereas in exchange for lower taxes other countries (such as the USA, I believe) don't have this, suggesting they expect people will set aside the money (or again, health insurance) for when (or if) needed.

As a result, you get a system in Australia that "favours" the unhealthy at the expense of the healthy (higher "return"), whereas the system in the USA seems to favor the "healthy", in that you pay for what you need, with suppliers competing to provide the best "service" to entice people to their facility over the "competition". The problem is that the Australian system requires a high level of "healthy" people in order to function, while providing no incentive to the providers to supply more than a minimal level of "care".

With regards to food - that would be a cultural issue (although it has been found here that the supermarkets tend to distribute healthier and\or better quality items to the stores in the "richer" areas.), so I'm not sure what the issues there may be.

With regards to privacy: At least you are aware (vaguely) of what your government is up to...Many countries have less knowledge, and so have potentially less privacy - it's just that they, and you don't know this.

With regards to police: This comes down to the treatment of people in the job and representation of the role. Treat them with respect (the same as any other person), ensure they are paid appropriately (and have adequate training) and you're on the way there...Applaud "good" actions, and give potential applicants a reason to WANT to do a good job\give a "goal" to live up to\strive towards in the role, while also demonstrating what happens to the "bad" police (as opposed to the current climate of "all police bad", none have ever done anything good) and you will get there...It possibly doesn't help that there seems to be (based on what I have seen) a "glorification" of "gangsta" life in certain areas, where the "criminal" section of society are held up as "role models" to emulate, rather than something to avoid.

On the reverse side, it's obvious that your healthcare and policing aren't that bad, considering the number of people who want to get in there (legally and\or "illegally")...I'd suggest you find a way to converse with someone who has moved there from a country which already has what you want, in order to find out why they gave it up to move to your country. After all, you have a list of "good" things you want, but to get them, there may be a lot more "bad" things that you would have to accept as well (besides the entirely different legal frameworks\constitutions upon which each countries laws need to fit).

I know it can be hard at times, but the "glass half full"\"give thanks for what you have" approach may be worth trying, rather than focussing on negative things.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,281
Location: the island of defective toy santas

19 Jun 2020, 5:29 am

Brictoria wrote:
The problem is: none of the things you want are free: Every other citizen in other countries pays for them. In Australia, we have private and public hospitals - public hospitals are state-run and funded through taxation revenue (hence "free"), but you can be waiting for 6 or more hours in the "waiting area" of the "emergency department" at one of them before even seeing a doctor (both my wife and daughter each have a number of serious medical conditions, so I am quite used to these rooms). In the USA, you have lower taxes, so the money "saved" through this can be set aside "in case of need", or invested in health insurance (something most people here are also forced to have, even with the "free" healthcare), but as I understand it, the time between arrival at one of your hospital emergency departments and seeing a doctor are considerably less. Similarly, taxes here cover the "free" or "subsidized" visits to a GP and certain medication (with pensioners (including disability pension)\unemployed receiving greater subsidies) which is managed by the federal government, whereas in exchange for lower taxes other countries (such as the USA, I believe) don't have this, suggesting they expect people will set aside the money (or again, health insurance) for when (or if) needed. As a result, you get a system in Australia that "favours" the unhealthy at the expense of the healthy (higher "return"), whereas the system in the USA seems to favor the "healthy", in that you pay for what you need, with suppliers competing to provide the best "service" to entice people to their facility over the "competition". The problem is that the Australian system requires a high level of "healthy" people in order to function, while providing no incentive to the providers to supply more than a minimal level of "care".

wallet biopsy is routinely done in medical facilities here, if you have a cadillac plan [full ride blue cross/shield/regence] you're in. anything less, you wait, sometimes up to a day, they are counting on folks who aren't dead yet to just up and leave after waiting that long, and die somewhere else. such a cadillac plan, if it were even offered to an oldster such as me, would cost in excess of $20k/annum, nobody i know can afford that. the older one is the more the bills are trebled. no other foreign country gouges their own citizens to that extent. the only relief comes if one is lucky enough to make it to age 65 when medicare kicks in. most folk here live paycheck to paycheck working 2+ jobs to keep a roof over their head [at least until the pandemic happened], again that is deliberately arranged by the PTB to keep people poor, stupid and too tired to complain or do anything about it. working even two minimum wage jobs isn't enough to have extra for health insurance which easily costs a middle-aged person their whole salary and then some. you have to live here to experience it yourself before you [as a secure commonwealth member] will be able to believe it. because i am a military veteran who fell between the cracks [didn't retire from the service, didn't serve "in theatre"] i am specifically excluded [thanks to trumpy] from obamacare. Veterans Administration doesn't pre-cover tertiary care [OR/ER] which are the most expensive parts of our rotten health care system.



vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

19 Jun 2020, 6:30 am

One thing we might want to think about is that if we persecute the police to much we will no longer attract good police officers.
Good candidates will no longer want to be police and hacks,wannabees and rent O cops will be the new police force and our society will suffer.


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined


auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,281
Location: the island of defective toy santas

19 Jun 2020, 6:39 am

it should not be an either/or situation where we must put up with blatant cop misbehavior in order to attract "good" cops who would not behave that way in the first place. other nations don't put up with this BS for that reason, they just spend the money and time it takes to attract and train good candidates, unlike us. america is a nation which knows the cost of everything but the value of NOTHING.



vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

19 Jun 2020, 6:53 am

auntblabby wrote:
it should not be an either/or situation where we must put up with blatant cop misbehavior in order to attract "good" cops who would not behave that way in the first place. other nations don't put up with this BS for that reason, they just spend the money and time it takes to attract and train good candidates, unlike us. america is a nation which knows the cost of everything but the value of NOTHING.
Punishing actual police wrong doing and unnecessary persecution of police is a different matter.

For example the case in Florida at the Wendy's:A taser was pointed at a police officer!That police officer doesn't know for sure if was is being pointed at him was the taser stolen from him or a real actual gun that the suspect already in his possession previously.The cop had to make the shot,he had too,the cop didn't know that a real gun was not being pointed at him.

If you point something that looks somewhat like a gun at a cop your going to get shot and rightfully so,the cop does not know you don't have a gun.Now that Atlanta cop is looking at murder charges all for the sins of Derek Chauvin.


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined


auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,281
Location: the island of defective toy santas

19 Jun 2020, 11:14 am

derek chauvin was just the hair on the hemorrhoid on the bunghole which was the Minneapolis PD who ignored 18 previous complaints about him. deconstruct that PD and reconstruct it without the corruption. Newark NJ did it, Minneapolis can do it also.



Brictoria
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,998
Location: Melbourne, Australia

19 Jun 2020, 11:45 am

auntblabby wrote:
derek chauvin was just the hair on the hemorrhoid on the bunghole which was the Minneapolis PD who ignored 18 previous complaints about him. deconstruct that PD and reconstruct it without the corruption. Newark NJ did it, Minneapolis can do it also.

If there's a problem with a specific PD, certainly do so...The problem is that ALL PD's (and police) seem to be the target at present, whether deserving or not - "guilt by association" rather than "innocent until proven guilty".

In almost any other situation, the targeting of an entire group of people for the wrongdoing of a small number (such as appears to be happening in the USA with regards to police) would likely be seen as "racist", "sexist", persecution, "hate crime", or similar (depending on the make-up of the group involved).

I'm also curious as to why nothing (based on what I have seen - but I am in a different country) has been said in the media about the prosecutor(s) and superior officers who did very little (if anything) about the prior complaints...And the unions who (potentially) had created a situation where his removal may have been, if not impossible, at the very least exceedingly difficult.



Bravo5150
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,669

19 Jun 2020, 11:54 am

Brictoria wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
derek chauvin was just the hair on the hemorrhoid on the bunghole which was the Minneapolis PD who ignored 18 previous complaints about him. deconstruct that PD and reconstruct it without the corruption. Newark NJ did it, Minneapolis can do it also.

If there's a problem with a specific PD, certainly do so...The problem is that ALL PD's (and police) seem to be the target at present, whether deserving or not - "guilt by association" rather than "innocent until proven guilty".

In almost any other situation, the targeting of an entire group of people for the wrongdoing of a small number (such as appears to be happening in the USA with regards to police) would likely be seen as "racist", "sexist", persecution, "hate crime", or similar (depending on the make-up of the group involved).

I'm also curious as to why nothing (based on what I have seen - but I am in a different country) has been said in the media about the prosecutor(s) and superior officers who did very little (if anything) about the prior complaints...And the unions who (potentially) had created a situation where his removal may have been, if not impossible, at the very least exceedingly difficult.


I think that the unions main job is to make firing employees excessively difficult. I once filed a fair housing complaint because a couple of security guards working there were mocking my disability. The security company had to file for bankruptcy and come back under a different name even after I signed an agreement because bankruptcy was their easiest way to get rid of the two security guards from the company.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,281
Location: the island of defective toy santas

19 Jun 2020, 11:59 am

many businesses here have also been known to abuse the bankruptcy process or general business liability law to get out from under judgments, they then open up DBA another name. that happened to me once when i did a BBB/atty general complaint against a crooked auto aftermarket company that damaged my car.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,281
Location: the island of defective toy santas

19 Jun 2020, 12:02 pm

Brictoria wrote:
I'm also curious as to why nothing (based on what I have seen - but I am in a different country) has been said in the media about the prosecutor(s) and superior officers who did very little (if anything) about the prior complaints...And the unions who (potentially) had created a situation where his removal may have been, if not impossible, at the very least exceedingly difficult.

in any hierarchy it is the low-hanging fruit that get whacked as sacrificial lambs. when i was in the army, corrupt and sociopathic commanders always escaped penalty but the lower-ranking NCOs at the bottom of the totem pole got the stockade time for offenses that the command set the tone for. same for the police. that is precisely why the whole GD PD needs to be torn apart and rebuilt from scratch, to get rid of that ingrown corruption at the higher ranks of the bureaucracy.



Brictoria
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,998
Location: Melbourne, Australia

19 Jun 2020, 12:11 pm

Bravo5150 wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
derek chauvin was just the hair on the hemorrhoid on the bunghole which was the Minneapolis PD who ignored 18 previous complaints about him. deconstruct that PD and reconstruct it without the corruption. Newark NJ did it, Minneapolis can do it also.

If there's a problem with a specific PD, certainly do so...The problem is that ALL PD's (and police) seem to be the target at present, whether deserving or not - "guilt by association" rather than "innocent until proven guilty".

In almost any other situation, the targeting of an entire group of people for the wrongdoing of a small number (such as appears to be happening in the USA with regards to police) would likely be seen as "racist", "sexist", persecution, "hate crime", or similar (depending on the make-up of the group involved).

I'm also curious as to why nothing (based on what I have seen - but I am in a different country) has been said in the media about the prosecutor(s) and superior officers who did very little (if anything) about the prior complaints...And the unions who (potentially) had created a situation where his removal may have been, if not impossible, at the very least exceedingly difficult.


I think that the unions main job is to make firing employees excessively difficult. I once filed a fair housing complaint because a couple of security guards working there were mocking my disability. The security company had to file for bankruptcy and come back under a different name even after I signed an agreement because bankruptcy was their easiest way to get rid of the two security guards from the company.


If that is the case, then maybe the focus of the reporting\coverage, and hence protests should be on the unions (and laws that allow this sort of thing) rather than on the police\PD's themselves? If a PD wants to remove a police office and the union is preventing this, why should the PD be receiving the blame?

I will say, your unions sound very different to ours down here. First (and only) time I was in a union was in my security days. Our company was bought out and first couple of pay dates passed with no money. Approached union but they refused to do anything, as the new company contributed to them and they didn't want to lose that income. Finally received pay a month or so after it was originally due. (Most of my jobs before and since have been in areas with no unions covering them, so not joining one hasn't been that much of a struggle...Although having one that would prevent\decrease the likelihood of "offshoring" would have some merit.).