Trump retweets video of armed couple menacing protesters

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Magna
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01 Jul 2020, 7:58 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Laws are way different in the USA and people are allowed to shoot people who try to break into their homes.


Yes and no, depending on which state you live in. There is something known as the "Castle Doctrine". Some states adopt the Castle Doctrine as law and other states do not.

"States like Texas allow citizens protecting their homes, car, or place of business or employment to use force – including lethal force – when an intruder has unlawfully entered or is attempting to enter using force; is attempting to remove someone from the home, car, or workplace by force; or is attempting to commit a crime such as rape, murder, or robbery. An attempt to retreat is not required before a citizen is justified in using force against the invasive party in Texas.

The state of Florida has such a strong Castle Doctrine that the dwelling being protected does not need to have a roof; can be mobile or immobile; and can be as temporary as a tent.

Other states with strong Castle Doctrine and stand-your-ground laws include: Alabama, Arizona, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Montana, Nevada, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, and Washington."

My state is not on that list. In my state a person must feel that their life is in imminent danger and the criminal has, is or is threatening to use potentially lethal violence against them or a member of their household. If that happens, then the criminal can be sent six feet under. In my state, if a criminal broke into a home and just stood there not saying anything, kept their distance but wouldn't leave, it would be illegal for the homeowner to shoot them.

Woe to the criminal who lives in Florida, Texas, etc. And woe to those sympathetic to and supportive of criminals in those states. In other words, common sense prevails in those states.



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01 Jul 2020, 10:06 am

The gates should not have been broken into but why didn’t they just stay inside?I would have went to an upstairs window, sat quietly and hidden with my gun and watched to see what the crowd did.Chances are they would have moved on after yelling a bit.
The home owners just looked stupid out there on the lawn bellowing and pointing their guns at people.


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QuantumChemist
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01 Jul 2020, 11:34 am

Magna wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Laws are way different in the USA and people are allowed to shoot people who try to break into their homes.


Yes and no, depending on which state you live in. There is something known as the "Castle Doctrine". Some states adopt the Castle Doctrine as law and other states do not.

"States like Texas allow citizens protecting their homes, car, or place of business or employment to use force – including lethal force – when an intruder has unlawfully entered or is attempting to enter using force; is attempting to remove someone from the home, car, or workplace by force; or is attempting to commit a crime such as rape, murder, or robbery. An attempt to retreat is not required before a citizen is justified in using force against the invasive party in Texas.

The state of Florida has such a strong Castle Doctrine that the dwelling being protected does not need to have a roof; can be mobile or immobile; and can be as temporary as a tent.

Other states with strong Castle Doctrine and stand-your-ground laws include: Alabama, Arizona, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Montana, Nevada, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, and Washington."

My state is not on that list. In my state a person must feel that their life is in imminent danger and the criminal has, is or is threatening to use potentially lethal violence against them or a member of their household. If that happens, then the criminal can be sent six feet under. In my state, if a criminal broke into a home and just stood there not saying anything, kept their distance but wouldn't leave, it would be illegal for the homeowner to shoot them.

Woe to the criminal who lives in Florida, Texas, etc. And woe to those sympathetic to and supportive of criminals in those states. In other words, common sense prevails in those states.


Add Kansas to the list that has those laws. My mother scared off a man trying to break into her house late at night by simply clicking back on her handgun a few years ago. He was trying to pry the front door open when she caught him. It took the police 15 minutes to get there, so I am glad she did what she did. He was caught doing the same thing later on that month in the same town and was a registered sex offender. That is one of the reasons why I store a couple of old double barrel shotguns (unloaded) by the front door closet in her house for instances like that. She knows how to use them if needed.



QuantumChemist
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01 Jul 2020, 11:48 am

Misslizard wrote:
The gates should not have been broken into but why didn’t they just stay inside?I would have went to an upstairs window, sat quietly and hidden with my gun and watched to see what the crowd did.Chances are they would have moved on after yelling a bit.
The home owners just looked stupid out there on the lawn bellowing and pointing their guns at people.


What would you have done in their instance if someone started the home on fire? Would you just sit there hoping the fire department would come by to put it out or would you have defended your home? In one of the articles I read about this story, some in the crowd were specifically threatening arson to the house. That is not a peaceful act.

I support the BLM movement, but it has to be peaceful if it wants to truly succeed. Violence against others will only give cause for more violence to happen.



Magna
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01 Jul 2020, 11:51 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
Magna wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Laws are way different in the USA and people are allowed to shoot people who try to break into their homes.


Yes and no, depending on which state you live in. There is something known as the "Castle Doctrine". Some states adopt the Castle Doctrine as law and other states do not.

"States like Texas allow citizens protecting their homes, car, or place of business or employment to use force – including lethal force – when an intruder has unlawfully entered or is attempting to enter using force; is attempting to remove someone from the home, car, or workplace by force; or is attempting to commit a crime such as rape, murder, or robbery. An attempt to retreat is not required before a citizen is justified in using force against the invasive party in Texas.

The state of Florida has such a strong Castle Doctrine that the dwelling being protected does not need to have a roof; can be mobile or immobile; and can be as temporary as a tent.

Other states with strong Castle Doctrine and stand-your-ground laws include: Alabama, Arizona, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Montana, Nevada, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, and Washington."

My state is not on that list. In my state a person must feel that their life is in imminent danger and the criminal has, is or is threatening to use potentially lethal violence against them or a member of their household. If that happens, then the criminal can be sent six feet under. In my state, if a criminal broke into a home and just stood there not saying anything, kept their distance but wouldn't leave, it would be illegal for the homeowner to shoot them.

Woe to the criminal who lives in Florida, Texas, etc. And woe to those sympathetic to and supportive of criminals in those states. In other words, common sense prevails in those states.


Add Kansas to the list that has those laws. My mother scared off a man trying to break into her house late at night by simply clicking back on her handgun a few years ago. He was trying to pry the front door open when she caught him. It took the police 15 minutes to get there, so I am glad she did what she did. He was caught doing the same thing later on that month in the same town and was a registered sex offender. That is one of the reasons why I store a couple of old double barrel shotguns (unloaded) by the front door closet in her house for instances like that. She knows how to use them if needed.


Interesting. Bradleigh needs to see this and I'm very glad your mother was ok. Yours is an example of a situation where a legally owned firearm was used as a deterrent and saved if not one then possibly two lives (ie your mothers and the criminal).

Anyone is free to consider the following hearsay and totally unsubstantiated since I won't bother taking the time to try to drudge up an article I recall reading within the last five years, but the article talked about a study done on 911 calls across the U.S. it was surmised that the number of cases like your mother's in which a crime is averted with no shots fired and no one injured because the potential victim makes the criminal aware they have a firearm is likely in the thousands per year. Not just a few, not just an anomaly, not just a statistically insignificant number. Thousands.

The racking sound of a shotgun is also a sound that is widely known by people and when people who are aware of the sound hear it, they conclude that the other person is armed with a deadly weapon and is ready to fire. It's presumable that a person aware of that sound would change their mind about committing a crime.



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01 Jul 2020, 2:04 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
In another article I read that a protestor told the homeowner it’s a public street, call the police etc.

So, which is it? A public street or private property?

There’s no such thing as private residential streets where I live. All roads are public. Even in neighbourhoods with $20-60M houses - anyone can drive or walk down the streets outside of them.

TheRobotLives wrote:
Their home is like a museum.


The shocking thing was that it’s only valued at $1.15M USD. Around here it would range from several Million to tens of Millions depending on location. Land value aside, there’s Zero Chance that that home could be constructed here for only $1.15M USD in materials and labour. None, whatsoever. A very typical regular detached house in the city of Vancouver costs about $1M CDN in construction costs these days for the level of fit and finish expected of them.


The gate they had to tear down would seem to say it wasn’t a public street.

There’s many private streets in the USA. The owners pay to pave the roads maintain them. They called gated communities. You have to either live there or be let in by someone who does. These “protests” tore down iron gates to break into the area.
Can protesters tears down your door and protest in your house?


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sly279
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01 Jul 2020, 2:06 pm

Magna wrote:
I agree that in a perfect world, both sides should receive some sort of castigation after watching the brief video if in fact the protesters were trespassing. It was completely unacceptable for the husband and wife to actually point their weapons directly at anyone. If it was within their legal right to stand on their property in their own yard with their weapons held in a safe manner, that's one thing. I don't know the laws in their state as to whether it's legal where they live to have weapons out on their own property.

Husband didn’t point at anyone he’s just holding the rifle at ready. If the mob rushed them he’d only have second or so to bring it up to fire.
I’d wager the wife never held or used a gun. When I first let my half sister see my handgun she picked it up held it sideways and pointed it at me and others.


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sly279
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01 Jul 2020, 2:14 pm

Misslizard wrote:
The gates should not have been broken into but why didn’t they just stay inside?I would have went to an upstairs window, sat quietly and hidden with my gun and watched to see what the crowd did.Chances are they would have moved on after yelling a bit.
The home owners just looked stupid out there on the lawn bellowing and pointing their guns at people.

Me and you as anxious aspies. Most people want to prevent any possible damage to their business or home. I rent. So maybe that’s also part of it.
We had protests out in our area and people blocked whole streets off with cars and stood out at the street entrance.

What would you do if they started throwing flaming bottles on your house? Sit inside and burn? That is the down side to use hiding inside. If we are outside we could see them about to do it and could shoot them. My few freiends would be outside with their rifles at ready. I’m not so brave.

Why protest in neighborhoods? What good does it do. Protest should be at the police states, city halls.


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sly279
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01 Jul 2020, 2:17 pm

QuantumChemist wrote:
Magna wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Laws are way different in the USA and people are allowed to shoot people who try to break into their homes.


Yes and no, depending on which state you live in. There is something known as the "Castle Doctrine". Some states adopt the Castle Doctrine as law and other states do not.

"States like Texas allow citizens protecting their homes, car, or place of business or employment to use force – including lethal force – when an intruder has unlawfully entered or is attempting to enter using force; is attempting to remove someone from the home, car, or workplace by force; or is attempting to commit a crime such as rape, murder, or robbery. An attempt to retreat is not required before a citizen is justified in using force against the invasive party in Texas.

The state of Florida has such a strong Castle Doctrine that the dwelling being protected does not need to have a roof; can be mobile or immobile; and can be as temporary as a tent.

Other states with strong Castle Doctrine and stand-your-ground laws include: Alabama, Arizona, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Montana, Nevada, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, and Washington."

My state is not on that list. In my state a person must feel that their life is in imminent danger and the criminal has, is or is threatening to use potentially lethal violence against them or a member of their household. If that happens, then the criminal can be sent six feet under. In my state, if a criminal broke into a home and just stood there not saying anything, kept their distance but wouldn't leave, it would be illegal for the homeowner to shoot them.

Woe to the criminal who lives in Florida, Texas, etc. And woe to those sympathetic to and supportive of criminals in those states. In other words, common sense prevails in those states.


Add Kansas to the list that has those laws. My mother scared off a man trying to break into her house late at night by simply clicking back on her handgun a few years ago. He was trying to pry the front door open when she caught him. It took the police 15 minutes to get there, so I am glad she did what she did. He was caught doing the same thing later on that month in the same town and was a registered sex offender. That is one of the reasons why I store a couple of old double barrel shotguns (unloaded) by the front door closet in her house for instances like that. She knows how to use them if needed.

Anti gun people would tell you while tragic your moms death is just one of millions of deaths every year that are needed sacrifices so we can pretend to live in a utopian society. :roll:


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sly279
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01 Jul 2020, 2:19 pm



Cops are so bad right! Mean they had every legal right to shoo this guy but didn’t.
Fist who discharges the gun then brings it up to point at the cops.


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01 Jul 2020, 3:26 pm

sly279 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
In another article I read that a protestor told the homeowner it’s a public street, call the police etc.

So, which is it? A public street or private property?

There’s no such thing as private residential streets where I live. All roads are public. Even in neighbourhoods with $20-60M houses - anyone can drive or walk down the streets outside of them.

TheRobotLives wrote:
Their home is like a museum.


The shocking thing was that it’s only valued at $1.15M USD. Around here it would range from several Million to tens of Millions depending on location. Land value aside, there’s Zero Chance that that home could be constructed here for only $1.15M USD in materials and labour. None, whatsoever. A very typical regular detached house in the city of Vancouver costs about $1M CDN in construction costs these days for the level of fit and finish expected of them.


The gate they had to tear down would seem to say it wasn’t a public street.

There’s many private streets in the USA. The owners pay to pave the roads maintain them. They called gated communities. You have to either live there or be let in by someone who does. These “protests” tore down iron gates to break into the area.
Can protesters tears down your door and protest in your house?


We don’t have gated communities or segregated neighbourhoods. We don’t treat people so horribly that we have to fear them forming a mob and breaking into our homes.

But to answer your question, yes, I suppose protestors Can tear down my door and protest in my house - just as they technically could anywhere. They wouldn’t, though. If there were any here I’d just open the door and see if they wanted to chat or if they’d like anything to eat or drink or need anything else. 8)

Most people don’t own guns here and aren’t so quick to resort to threats of violence by gunfire like yourself and the violent people you like to promote. We don’t have the same gun worshipping gun but culture OR the same hardcore racism. We do have guns And racism, just not to the same extremes as the USA - which is also why we haven’t felt the need to create gated communities to keep white people in and black people out. We don’t live in the same fear of each other as Americans do.

Here’s a clip from a documentary to recap how this all happened in the USA:


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01 Jul 2020, 3:32 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
We don’t live in the same fear of each other as Americans do.
We're not all like that. Try using a less broad brush, please.



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01 Jul 2020, 3:41 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
We don’t have gated communities or segregated neighbourhoods. We don’t treat people so horribly that we have to fear them forming a mob and breaking into our homes.


Image


Right, but the Utopia that was the CHAZ was a smashing success. How many dead now?


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01 Jul 2020, 3:41 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
We don’t have gated communities or segregated neighbourhoods. We don’t treat people so horribly that we have to fear them forming a mob and breaking into our homes.


Ouch.

Nanaimo, B.C. Gated Community.

Cobble Hill, Area C B.C. gated community

Chilliwack, B.C. Gated Community

Maple Ridge, B.C. "Highly Sought After" Gated Community

Campbell River, B.C. "gated waterfront community"

It looks like there are a bunch more, but I decided to stop there.



goldfish21
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01 Jul 2020, 3:51 pm

Magna wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
We don’t have gated communities or segregated neighbourhoods. We don’t treat people so horribly that we have to fear them forming a mob and breaking into our homes.


Ouch.

Nanaimo, B.C. Gated Community.

Cobble Hill, Area C B.C. gated community

Chilliwack, B.C. Gated Community

Maple Ridge, B.C. "Highly Sought After" Gated Community

Campbell River, B.C. "gated waterfront community"

It looks like there are a bunch more, but I decided to stop there.


Weird.

I’ve never heard of one or seen one - that’s how exceedingly rare they are.

I’m able to drive up and down streets all over neighbourhoods with $10-70M homes.

I guess these handful of places cater to American immigrants seeking the comforts of home. :? :?


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01 Jul 2020, 4:17 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Magna wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
We don’t have gated communities or segregated neighbourhoods. We don’t treat people so horribly that we have to fear them forming a mob and breaking into our homes.


Ouch.

Nanaimo, B.C. Gated Community.

Cobble Hill, Area C B.C. gated community

Chilliwack, B.C. Gated Community

Maple Ridge, B.C. "Highly Sought After" Gated Community

Campbell River, B.C. "gated waterfront community"

It looks like there are a bunch more, but I decided to stop there.


Weird.

I’ve never heard of one or seen one - that’s how exceedingly rare they are.

I’m able to drive up and down streets all over neighbourhoods with $10-70M homes.

I guess these handful of places cater to American immigrants seeking the comforts of home. :? :?


Englewood Village
Craig Bay Community
Bishop's Green
Community Living Victoria
Valley Vista Estates
Crest Estates
West Harbour Resort
Desert Cove Estates
Sage Creek Developments
Cadence At The Lakes
Country Pines
Langley Grove Estates
Canyon Desert Resort
Acorn Communities
Paradise Estates
The Revera Kensington Victoria
Revera Fleetwood
Shuswap Lake Estates
Sandalwood Adult Community


Dude, you gotta get out more.

"I guess these handful of places cater to American immigrants seeking the comforts of home. :? :?"

Yep, I bet that's it. :roll: