I have a question about the George Floyd incident.

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funeralxempire
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16 Aug 2020, 3:58 am

idntonkw wrote:
The cop who strangled him actually may have had autistic qualities.. he did not fit in with sociable people, wasn't fun to chat with, was awkward in social situations.. so his approach to taking down suspects was stringent and lacked flexibility..


Doesn't excuse murder.


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16 Aug 2020, 4:02 am

Brictoria wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh I wasn't asking how the cop felt about how he was acting, it just it came off to resisting to me in the video, but I was not sure what was causing him to resist, if that was the case.?


It would be interesting to get some type of feedback from the cop in the video. Obviously whatever excuse Derek Chauvin came up with in his defence it didn't fly since he seems to have a history of psychopathy

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/us/d ... floyd.html


Alternatively, maybe the footage from a member of the public, which focussed on the ending and not events leading up to it and which had been widely publicised forced the prosecutor to lay charges in order to try and defuse the situation?

Which could lead to an interesting situation should they have been "over charged" and so are found "not guilty".

Not saying Mr Chauvin was an angel (his records certainly indicate otherwise), but if it turns out he was "following his training", it could quite easily affect the outcome of the trial...


Well there are so many people in the state who hate Chauvin that seems that it wouldn't be hard trying to find enough jurors who would hate him as well.

But as for the video being cut, the one I saw on youtube seems to show the entire incident without any cutting ahead in it though.



cyberdad
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16 Aug 2020, 4:06 am

Brictoria wrote:
Strange: Facts indicate otherwise:
Quote:
The way a Minneapolis police officer restrained George Floyd before he died — placing his knee on Floyd's neck while the man lay on his stomach — is widely discredited by law enforcement experts because it can cause suffocation.

But the technique is allowed in Minneapolis.

Source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/29/george-floyd-experts-say-neck-restraint-allowed-minneapolis-can-kill/5274334002/


It should be apparent there isn't a uniform view toward this method of restraint. Chauvin's only possible "get out of jail" card is to draw on Minneapolis police regulations but then there's the issue of why his knee was in Floyd's neck for 8 min and 46 seconds.



ironpony
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16 Aug 2020, 4:12 am

Well I guess it would depend on how many officers that the defense can produce to cooberate this. Will there be many who will say this is a textbook method, even for 8 minutes?



cyberdad
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16 Aug 2020, 4:16 am

ironpony wrote:
Well I guess it would depend on how many officers that the defense can produce to cooberate this. Will there be many who will say this is a textbook method, even for 8 minutes?


Yes after all the protests and damage to public property it would be ironic if Chauvin avoids jail.



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16 Aug 2020, 4:17 am

Well the article says that one expert says the knee press is allowed, but will the prosecution be able to produce more witnesses who disagree with that, and say it's not true?



cyberdad
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16 Aug 2020, 4:18 am

ironpony wrote:
Well the article says that one expert says the knee press is allowed, but will the prosecution be able to produce more witnesses who disagree with that, and say it's not true?


So Chauvin has two hurdles i) is it allowed and ii) can he use it for 8min 46sec?



Brictoria
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16 Aug 2020, 5:56 am

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well the article says that one expert says the knee press is allowed, but will the prosecution be able to produce more witnesses who disagree with that, and say it's not true?


So Chauvin has two hurdles i) is it allowed and ii) can he use it for 8min 46sec?


Or, worst case for the prosecution: It is included in training material\official guidelines, and there is nothing there to indicate that there are any potential issues to be aware of when using it\timeframes over which it can be used, whereas there are for other restraint methods.

As your i) appears to have been covered (in that is was permitted\instructed to be used), they would be reliant on there being something to state it should not be used for prolonged periods (and lacking that, that no other restraint option did have a recommended timeframe for use).



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16 Aug 2020, 5:59 am

ironpony wrote:
But as for the video being cut, the one I saw on youtube seems to show the entire incident without any cutting ahead in it though.


Until recently (the past week or 2, I believe), the only footage available to the public had been some from a by-stander's phone which started from around the time that MR Floyd was being restrained on the ground, and so was "cut" in that it was only from a point later in the interaction and did not capture anything leading up to that point, unlike the police bodycam footage which was what was being withheld from the public.



ironpony
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16 Aug 2020, 1:02 pm

Oh okay, well I don't think the prosecution was hiding anything unlawfully from the public, though, I think they have to wait till a certain point in the case before showing them, don't they? For example, when it cromes to crime scene photos, you wouldn't expect them to be uploaded to the internet for all to see, the same day of the murder.



ironpony
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16 Aug 2020, 1:05 pm

Brictoria wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well the article says that one expert says the knee press is allowed, but will the prosecution be able to produce more witnesses who disagree with that, and say it's not true?


So Chauvin has two hurdles i) is it allowed and ii) can he use it for 8min 46sec?


Or, worst case for the prosecution: It is included in training material\official guidelines, and there is nothing there to indicate that there are any potential issues to be aware of when using it\timeframes over which it can be used, whereas there are for other restraint methods.

As your i) appears to have been covered (in that is was permitted\instructed to be used), they would be reliant on there being something to state it should not be used for prolonged periods (and lacking that, that no other restraint option did have a recommended timeframe for use).


Well I'm not a police officer, and I am just taking a guess here, so tell me if I am wrong, but I think maybe you are only allowed to use such restraint methods to handcuff a person, where as Floyd was already cuffed, wasn't he? So why didn't they just put him back in the car?

Even though he was resisting to get into the car, he couldn't really do much when he was already cuffed. I could have shoved him into the car, if he was handcuffed, so I don't know how the officers are going to explain why they just didn't do that, and shut the door of the car.

So I think they will not be able to explain that that method can be used after the person is already cuffed, and they refused to put shove him into the car and lock him in, unless I am wrong?



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17 Aug 2020, 8:07 am

He had a beyond lethal dose of fentanyl and other drugs in his system, he had Covid-19, and he had heart problems.

https://lawandcrime.com/george-floyd-death/authorities-just-released-george-floyds-complete-autopsy-report-read-it-here/

The officers should have given him Narcan, but I don’t know how obvious the OD signs are if the person doesn’t tell you they used drugs.



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19 Aug 2020, 10:55 am

People are making him into a saint , didnt this guy have a record ?

But they used excessive force , the neck thing was out of line , they prolly couldve handled him w/o it



funeralxempire
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19 Aug 2020, 1:28 pm

SocOfAutism wrote:
He had a beyond lethal dose of fentanyl and other drugs in his system, he had Covid-19, and he had heart problems.

https://lawandcrime.com/george-floyd-death/authorities-just-released-george-floyds-complete-autopsy-report-read-it-here/

The officers should have given him Narcan, but I don’t know how obvious the OD signs are if the person doesn’t tell you they used drugs.


The private autopsy didn't support those conclusions, further intentionally cutting off the blood supply to someone's brain for nearly 9 minutes is an intentional act that any reasonable person might conclude will result in homicide.

If Chauvin isn't a murderer no one is.


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19 Aug 2020, 11:52 pm

What was Chauvin's motive and intention though? Did he want to murder him on camera, or did he just want him to suffer only?



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22 Aug 2020, 3:29 am

I wasn't expecting this defence...

Quote:
The knee-on-the-neck arrest of George Floyd had nothing to do with his death — because he actually “killed himself,” a lawyer for one of the four charged cops has claimed.

Earl Gray, the attorney for Thomas Lane, has already filed court papers trying to dismiss the fired officer’s charges, insisting the real cause of Floyd’s death was an overdose of the powerful opioid fentanyl.

Gray now claims it will help clear all of the fired cops — even Derek Chauvin, the Minneapolis officer filmed with his knee on Floyd’s neck for almost eight minutes as he begged, “I can’t breathe”.

“None of these guys — even Chauvin — actually killed him,” Gray told the Los Angeles Times of the May death ruled a homicide by the medical examiner.

“He killed himself,” he insisted of Floyd, whose death sparked months of often violent protests across the US and parts of the rest of the world.

“We are going to show that my client and the other cops were doing their jobs,” he insisted.

The veteran criminal defence attorney said he would base his case on toxicology and autopsy reports, which found fentanyl and methamphetamine in Floyd’s system.

Recently released police body camera footage also gave a fuller picture of the arrest, including the disappearance of a white spot on Floyd’s tongue that looks like “2 milligrams of fentanyl, a lethal dose,” he has said.

Floyd also told the officers he’d been “hooping,” slang for taking drugs, the report noted.

Legal experts believe the case could prove less clear-cut than the initial rush to judgment by the public.

“This is not a slam dunk for the prosecution and not an easy case, especially for the higher-degree homicide charges,” Philip Stinson, a Bowling Green State University criminologist and former cop who studies police misconduct, told the LA paper.

“If this case goes to trial and an officer testifies on his own behalf, it is possible there is reasonable doubt there for jurors.”

Chauvin is charged with Floyd’s murder. Lane and two other officers — Alexander Kueng and Tou Thao — each face charges of aiding and abetting second-degree murder and aiding and abetting second-degree manslaughter.

All four were fired from the Minneapolis Police Department after footage of the death emerged.

Attorneys for Chauvin, Kueng and Thao declined to comment on Gray’s remarks, as did prosecutors in the case, the Los Angeles Times said.

Source: https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/black-lives-matter-lawyer-for-minneapolis-cop-claims-george-floyd-killed-himself/news-story/d237a7013ec20d46c6cb7d01305a46e7