[ UK ] Anti-vaxxer 'Army' threatens vaccine centres.

Page 2 of 2 [ 19 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,523

12 Jan 2022, 2:58 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Most anti-vaxxers don't want to take away people's choice to have a vaccine, though some do. It's more the fact that when they see people promoting authoritarianism, they fear that authority will envelope them.


Offering vaccinations - even mandating them - isn't about authoritarianism, it's about keeping as many people safe as possible. This is just another example of insane idiocy Trump has inspired in his cult.


Mandating anything is by definition, authoritarianism & is a coercive measure.

Imagine the uproar if the delivery of a baby after becoming pregnant as a biological woman, was mandated.

Imagine a United States or a United Kingdom, where abortion clinics were all closed - every last one of them & biological women had to start having abortions in an underground economy, frozen out of the mainstream, like they have done in decades gone by.

Would that not be unfair? Persons not vaccinated are being discriminated against, right now. - and it has been happening since the coercive policy of mass vaccination for adults has begun.

The end does not justify the means if you have to take freedom away to reach the end (which happens to be authoritarianism).


Having an abortion or not doesn't put anyone else' life in danger. Refusing to get vaccinated, or even refusing to just wear a mask, can cause Covid to spread to someone who it might kill. It's not authoritarian to protect people's lives. Is it authoritarian to require people to wear safety belts, or to wear motorcycle helmets? Or to require drivers be licensed? Or to make it a crime to drive drunk?


A person could theoretically argue that a foetus is a life and is thus murdered when aborted. I do not subscribe to that viewpoint personally, but it is a viewpoint that exists and it is true that there can be no arbitrary line drawn to describe what is alive, in that particular scenario.

In China, no-one has to wear a motorcycle helmet & that is an authoritarian state overall. Things are muddied and unexpected laws exist everywhere in the world. Everything is relative to everyone, essentially.

Personally, I find Cultural Conservatism & Socialism to be a palatable societal structure, in its most elemental literary form.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,245
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

12 Jan 2022, 8:29 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Most anti-vaxxers don't want to take away people's choice to have a vaccine, though some do. It's more the fact that when they see people promoting authoritarianism, they fear that authority will envelope them.


Offering vaccinations - even mandating them - isn't about authoritarianism, it's about keeping as many people safe as possible. This is just another example of insane idiocy Trump has inspired in his cult.


Mandating anything is by definition, authoritarianism & is a coercive measure.

Imagine the uproar if the delivery of a baby after becoming pregnant as a biological woman, was mandated.

Imagine a United States or a United Kingdom, where abortion clinics were all closed - every last one of them & biological women had to start having abortions in an underground economy, frozen out of the mainstream, like they have done in decades gone by.

Would that not be unfair? Persons not vaccinated are being discriminated against, right now. - and it has been happening since the coercive policy of mass vaccination for adults has begun.

The end does not justify the means if you have to take freedom away to reach the end (which happens to be authoritarianism).


Having an abortion or not doesn't put anyone else' life in danger. Refusing to get vaccinated, or even refusing to just wear a mask, can cause Covid to spread to someone who it might kill. It's not authoritarian to protect people's lives. Is it authoritarian to require people to wear safety belts, or to wear motorcycle helmets? Or to require drivers be licensed? Or to make it a crime to drive drunk?


A person could theoretically argue that a foetus is a life and is thus murdered when aborted. I do not subscribe to that viewpoint personally, but it is a viewpoint that exists and it is true that there can be no arbitrary line drawn to describe what is alive, in that particular scenario.

In China, no-one has to wear a motorcycle helmet & that is an authoritarian state overall. Things are muddied and unexpected laws exist everywhere in the world. Everything is relative to everyone, essentially.

Personally, I find Cultural Conservatism & Socialism to be a palatable societal structure, in its most elemental literary form.


A woman's fetus isn't going to get aborted by standing next to another woman who's just had an abortion, but if the second woman had contracted Covid after refusing to get a vaccination or wear a mask, that's a whole different story. Therein is the difference.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,689
Location: Northern California

12 Jan 2022, 10:31 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Most anti-vaxxers don't want to take away people's choice to have a vaccine, though some do. It's more the fact that when they see people promoting authoritarianism, they fear that authority will envelope them.


Offering vaccinations - even mandating them - isn't about authoritarianism, it's about keeping as many people safe as possible. This is just another example of insane idiocy Trump has inspired in his cult.


Mandating anything is by definition, authoritarianism & is a coercive measure.

Imagine the uproar if the delivery of a baby after becoming pregnant as a biological woman, was mandated.

Imagine a United States or a United Kingdom, where abortion clinics were all closed - every last one of them & biological women had to start having abortions in an underground economy, frozen out of the mainstream, like they have done in decades gone by.

Would that not be unfair? Persons not vaccinated are being discriminated against, right now. - and it has been happening since the coercive policy of mass vaccination for adults has begun.

The end does not justify the means if you have to take freedom away to reach the end (which happens to be authoritarianism).


The example fails, however, in that the attacks aren't against a mandate but, instead, the attacks directly harm those exercising or attempting to exercise their choice to get the vaccine. In my eyes, it is more comparable to attacking pregnant mothers for choosing to carry their children than it is to making abortion illegal.

Here in the US, mandates have been a response to low voluntary vaccination rates, not the other way around. Not sure the order in the UK. The more people who voluntarily get vaccinated, the easier it becomes to stick with a choice to not get vaccinated. When viewed through that lens, attacking those choosing to get vaccinated is highly counterproductive.

The reality is people are simply wound tight and latching on to fake causes and false beliefs because they need an excuse to rage. We're living in a tinder box of a world right now. Applying logic doesn't really work and the problem exists to varying degrees on all sides of most equations.


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).