White kids not "racially innocent" according to green counci

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hurtloam
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30 Jan 2022, 2:13 pm

Nades wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
I'm so old...

I'm glad things have changed and you younger folks have no idea about this stuff.


I went to a South Wales infants school with almost entirely white pupils and even in 1996 a pupil was scalded for calling a light pink pencil a "flesh" coloured pencil.

Throughout my entire school life, the Golly was never mentioned or any racist stereotypes. The slave trade was taught to the entire year group in 2002 and the American civil rights movement in 2004 both in history and religious education.


I learned about the slave trade in history lessons in high school when I was about 13 and matters of racism in a class called Personal and Social Development in high school. Well I knew about it before that because of my Mum. She was appalled by how racist her war generation parents were and wanted to make sure that wasn't passed on to my generation. She did have a black friend from Birmingham when I was a kid who I remember saying that she didn't like the term "coloured". "Just say black", she told us.



Nades
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30 Jan 2022, 2:31 pm

hurtloam wrote:
Nades wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
I'm so old...

I'm glad things have changed and you younger folks have no idea about this stuff.


I went to a South Wales infants school with almost entirely white pupils and even in 1996 a pupil was scalded for calling a light pink pencil a "flesh" coloured pencil.

Throughout my entire school life, the Golly was never mentioned or any racist stereotypes. The slave trade was taught to the entire year group in 2002 and the American civil rights movement in 2004 both in history and religious education.


I learned about the slave trade in history lessons in high school when I was about 13 and matters of racism in a class called Personal and Social Development in high school. Well I knew about it before that because of my Mum. She was appalled by how racist her war generation parents were and wanted to make sure that wasn't passed on to my generation. She did have a black friend from Birmingham when I was a kid who I remember saying that she didn't like the term "coloured". "Just say black", she told us.



I think black oppression to an extent is taught pretty early in schools and has been for several decades. I haven't seen a Golly in years and even if I did see one, me and all others will know it's a relic from the 1800s to early 1900s.

I think students are very aware or racism from an early age in the UK but mentioning they're privileged for having white skin is untrue and racist in itself. Young white boys are at the biggest disadvantage in the UK now.



cyberdad
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30 Jan 2022, 4:08 pm

Education secretary of state Nadhim Zahawi has previously warned schools not to teach children about white privilege as though it is a 'matter of fact'.

Mr Zahawi said late last year it was a 'contesting view' and teachers who promote it risk pushing 'partisan' politics on pupils.

He added that political issues on race should be taught 'in a balanced and factual manner'.

And he said schools have a 'legal duty' to maintain 'political impartiality' when covering 'sensitive and complex issues'.


While I agree the issue of exposing young children to these concepts at such a young age should be debated first, the education secretary of state is mislabelling a psychological issue with a political one.

The Premise behind the program is already known to psychologists that children exposed to the realities of white privilege (which the secretary admits is a fact) are less likely to be racist. The problem is
1. Whether they will understand the complexity of such an issue at this age
2. If it is presented then it needs to be done in a nuanced fashion through activities rather than actual slides/information.

5-7 years can barely sit through a PPT presentation so I am not sure about this mode of teaching? secondly exposure to such complex nuanced issues needs to be very carefully designed and not hurredly slapped together by an early learning teacher who may well be biased or prejudiced themselves and untrained and may not be the best people to deliver this content in the first place.



Nades
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30 Jan 2022, 4:15 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Education secretary of state Nadhim Zahawi has previously warned schools not to teach children about white privilege as though it is a 'matter of fact'.

Mr Zahawi said late last year it was a 'contesting view' and teachers who promote it risk pushing 'partisan' politics on pupils.

He added that political issues on race should be taught 'in a balanced and factual manner'.

And he said schools have a 'legal duty' to maintain 'political impartiality' when covering 'sensitive and complex issues'.


While I agree the issue of exposing young children to these concepts at such a young age should be debated first, the education secretary of state is mislabelling a psychological issue with a political one.

The Premise behind the program is already known to psychologists that children exposed to the realities of white privilege (which the secretary admits is a fact) are less likely to be racist. The problem is
1. Whether they will understand the complexity of such an issue at this age
2. If it is presented then it needs to be done in a nuanced fashion through activities rather than actual slides/information.

5-7 years can barely sit through a PPT presentation so I am not sure about this mode of teaching? secondly exposure to such complex nuanced issues needs to be very carefully designed and not hurredly slapped together by an early learning teacher who may well be biased or prejudiced themselves and untrained and may not be the best people to deliver this content in the first place.



The problem is that white privilege often isn't a fact in the UK. The most economically disadvantaged people in the UK are working class white boys usually in areas with a predominantly white population.

It's the fact white privilege is being taught at all where it's becoming obvious privilege isn't as clear cut as skin colour.

Where in earth did he say white privilege was a fact too?



Misslizard
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30 Jan 2022, 5:46 pm

Where I live is predominantly white and also a poor rural area.The only white privilege I can think of here is living on land that used to be someone else’s a few hundred years ago.
Being from the South I’ve heard tons of racist names for other people who are different, mostly from the older generation.Not that some young people don’t use that language today but it’s slowly dying out.
People used to call the black insulation board n***** board, to fix something badly was to n***** rig it, a broke bottle was a n***** knife, even the innocent black eyed Susan flower was called a n***** navel , there was a type of firework called a n***** chaser, and Brazil nuts were n***** toes.Everyday language was full of it.


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cyberdad
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30 Jan 2022, 5:51 pm

Nades wrote:
Where in earth did he say white privilege was a fact too?


I've misquoted the secretary, he actually said "as if it's fact" whereas I read it as "as fact".



cyberdad
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30 Jan 2022, 5:56 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Where I live is predominantly white and also a poor rural area.The only white privilege I can think of here is living on land that used to be someone else’s a few hundred years ago.
Being from the South I’ve heard tons of racist names for other people who are different, mostly from the older generation.Not that some young people don’t use that language today but it’s slowly dying out.
People used to call the black insulation board n***** board, to fix something badly was to n***** rig it, a broke bottle was a n***** knife, even the innocent black eyed Susan flower was called a n***** navel , there was a type of firework called a n***** chaser, and Brazil nuts were n***** toes.Everyday language was full of it.


Yes "behind closed doors" literally everybody is racist, No matter what they teach at school, parental/peer influence is going to be a far greater influence than 1-2 classes with a PPT which will be long forgotten.

The other factor that educators need to consider is that its human nature to not give up privilege so there is also the possibility this might have the opposite effect.

Research from the 1960s is still the strongest that putting kids together from different backgrounds is the best way to break down prejudice. That's why parents fought so hard to keep apartheid in American schools in the 1960s because of the fear their kids would bring home a black kid.



Misslizard
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30 Jan 2022, 6:59 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Where I live is predominantly white and also a poor rural area.The only white privilege I can think of here is living on land that used to be someone else’s a few hundred years ago.
Being from the South I’ve heard tons of racist names for other people who are different, mostly from the older generation.Not that some young people don’t use that language today but it’s slowly dying out.
People used to call the black insulation board n***** board, to fix something badly was to n***** rig it, a broke bottle was a n***** knife, even the innocent black eyed Susan flower was called a n***** navel , there was a type of firework called a n***** chaser, and Brazil nuts were n***** toes.Everyday language was full of it.


Yes "behind closed doors" literally everybody is racist, No matter what they teach at school, parental/peer influence is going to be a far greater influence than 1-2 classes with a PPT which will be long forgotten.

The other factor that educators need to consider is that its human nature to not give up privilege so there is also the possibility this might have the opposite effect.

Research from the 1960s is still the strongest that putting kids together from different backgrounds is the best way to break down prejudice. That's why parents fought so hard to keep apartheid in American schools in the 1960s because of the fear their kids would bring home a black kid.

Yeah, and that’s exactly what happened when I went to school in Little Rock in the late seventies.Except I didn’t bring just one black friend home to play with, I brought two. :D


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cyberdad
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31 Jan 2022, 12:41 am

Misslizard wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Where I live is predominantly white and also a poor rural area.The only white privilege I can think of here is living on land that used to be someone else’s a few hundred years ago.
Being from the South I’ve heard tons of racist names for other people who are different, mostly from the older generation.Not that some young people don’t use that language today but it’s slowly dying out.
People used to call the black insulation board n***** board, to fix something badly was to n***** rig it, a broke bottle was a n***** knife, even the innocent black eyed Susan flower was called a n***** navel , there was a type of firework called a n***** chaser, and Brazil nuts were n***** toes.Everyday language was full of it.


Yes "behind closed doors" literally everybody is racist, No matter what they teach at school, parental/peer influence is going to be a far greater influence than 1-2 classes with a PPT which will be long forgotten.

The other factor that educators need to consider is that its human nature to not give up privilege so there is also the possibility this might have the opposite effect.

Research from the 1960s is still the strongest that putting kids together from different backgrounds is the best way to break down prejudice. That's why parents fought so hard to keep apartheid in American schools in the 1960s because of the fear their kids would bring home a black kid.

Yeah, and that’s exactly what happened when I went to school in Little Rock in the late seventies.Except I didn’t bring just one black friend home to play with, I brought two. :D


I used to get lifts home back in the 70s when I was in primary school. One of the more memorable conversations I recall while in a parent's car was a classmate "little Johnny" asking his mom "can I ask "timmy" over? and the mother saying "no", "johnny being shocked at his mother's terse response naturally asked "why"? and I'll never forget the answer because it sounded quite weird even to my little ears. Mommy responded "because we have to support our own race" (Timmy was Fijian). Johnny Asked mommy "What's our race mommy"? and she answered rather exasperated "Australian of course!" giving him a look like he stupid :lol:



hurtloam
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31 Jan 2022, 5:38 am

The PowerPoint presentation isn't for the kids, it's for the teacher training session.



Nades
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31 Jan 2022, 5:46 am

hurtloam wrote:
The PowerPoint presentation isn't for the kids, it's for the teacher training session.


I know but it's hard to translate a teacher training PowerPoint that says all kids are guilty of some form of racism without being able to deviate much from the original.

The purpose of the PowerPoint was simple. To instruct teachers that white children need to be told they're racist.



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31 Jan 2022, 5:06 pm

Only racism I was guilty of was I was dealing with with white guilt when I was 14 because I found out there were still racist white people so I felt bad that I was white so in Las Vegas I handed my game tickets to a black mother and her kids. I couldn't understand why my mom took offense to that and then said all these men who had been giving me their game tickets was because I had large breasts.


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31 Jan 2022, 5:20 pm

I guess another racist thing I am guilty of was being naïve about other cultures so I may have said things that were racist like when I told a Native American mom at work in Montana her son isn't being discriminated because the short hair rule applies to everyone for the football team.

While I understand now this is a cultural thing, they can make an accommodation like hair must be worn up and have the parents and student sign a contract saying they won't hold the district accountable for any injuries related to long hair. That way they are protected from any liability.

And I remember getting into an argument with funeralexempire about clothing restrictions in restaurants. My argument was, to prove there is no actual discrimination, meet the dress code requirements and then see if they still refuse to serve you. Back when I was fighting to be treated like NT students, I wanted rules to be enforced on everyone so one day my school did a malicious compliance by thinking "okay, since LG wants to be treated like everyone else, lets treat her as if other students acted like her, we will punish her for it." I wonder if they did it to make a point to show me "not everything is equal." What I actually wanted was I didn't want things enforce on me that were not enforced on other students and I didn't want double standards. But comparing my situation to a dress code for public places was comparing apples and oranges.

I was raised racially color blind where everyone pretended everyone was equal regardless of the color of their skin.


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31 Jan 2022, 5:24 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I felt bad that I was white so in Las Vegas I handed my game tickets to a black mother and her kids. .


I recall when there was anti-Asian immigration protests in Australia in early 1980 there was a journalist named Mike Willessee who told the public when you "See an asian person smile and say hello and make their day".

Even though I was in lower highschool, the thought of walking up to an Asian family and smiling seemed fake and condescending,.



cyberdad
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31 Jan 2022, 5:28 pm

Nades wrote:
The purpose of the PowerPoint was simple. To instruct teachers that white children need to be told they're racist.


Which is why I am not sure early learning teachers know how to translate this into educational information?

Speaking of which, I think something has been "lost in translation" between the edict from the green council and the reporting in the newspaper. My best guess is this may not be compulsory for all teachers to pass on to the kids.



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31 Jan 2022, 5:56 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Nades wrote:
The purpose of the PowerPoint was simple. To instruct teachers that white children need to be told they're racist.


Which is why I am not sure early learning teachers know how to translate this into educational information?

Speaking of which, I think something has been "lost in translation" between the edict from the green council and the reporting in the newspaper. My best guess is this may not be compulsory for all teachers to pass on to the kids.


It doesn't need to be translated because it's not true. It's been proven that white boys, particularly from working class backgrounds are at the greatest disadvantage.