Kremlin papers appear to show Putin plot to put Trump in WH

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Kraichgauer
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14 Feb 2022, 3:02 am

Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Brictoria wrote:


There's evidence Racist perjorative removed there (Assange) was on Russia's payroll. I think it's suspicious that Trump, who had wanted Assange executed, ended up being his cheerleader as soon as Assange (Racist perjorative removed there) was showing favoritism toward Russia.
Besides, I wouldn't trust any of those three even less than I could throw any of them.

Image


I think we're all aware that I'm referring to Assange's white hair and pale complexion. Not a thing racist about it.


The term you used is a racist perjorative for people with european ancestry.

And no, we're not all aware of what you now claim you were referring to, or even whether that "explanation" for the use of the racist term is true.


Well, I think everyone else knows it wasn't directed racially at white people. And even if it was, I'm a white guy, so it's my people's word.


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traven
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14 Feb 2022, 3:05 am

all these gas & pipeline wars (ao;syria+ukraine)

remember kerry poking the russians all the time, a little while ago
they just can't let go of this idea


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envirozentinel
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14 Feb 2022, 4:35 am

I have never heard of someone with white hair or pale complexion being referred to as wh***y. I did however have a very distant relative years ago who was called wh***y because his surname was Dewitt.

Please folks - stick to the topic without using irrelevant asides that aren't needed to show your point. The international Scrabble authority recently removed a slew of about 400 words that are now considered undesirable and not even permitted in official games. Perhaps they went overboard, and there was a lot of resistance from around the world, but at least they were pretty consistent in removing ones that had even a remote possibility of offending sensitives across the board.

Thanks!


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Brictoria
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14 Feb 2022, 4:48 am

envirozentinel wrote:
I have never heard of someone with white hair or pale complexion being referred to as wh***y. I did however have a very distant relative years ago who was called wh***y because his surname was Dewitt.

Please folks - stick to the topic without using irrelevant asides that aren't needed to show your point. The international Scrabble authority recently removed a slew of about 400 words that are now considered undesirable and not even permitted in official games. Perhaps they went overboard, and there was a lot of resistance from around the world, but at least they were pretty consistent in removing ones that had even a remote possibility of offending sensitives across the board.

Thanks!


Unfortunately, I heard the term being used quite frequently at university (and other locations, then and since) towards people I was with from a variety of ethnic backgrounds, and am quite aware of it's racist meaning and usage (in fact I haven't been able to find any definitions in standard dictionaries that refer to the word in any term other than it being a racist, derogatory towards those of a certain "race", or similar)...

Even Merriam-Webster reports only a single definition for the word, and that the word has been used for this meaning for over 2 centuries, so it seems strange that racist terms such as this are permitted (would the equivalent term referring to someone with dark skin and dark hair also be permitted) - Is it because only racism against certain "races" is permitted on this site, while others is not?

Just because you haven't heard a racist word used in such a way (I believe there is a name for a certain type of biscuit, which is considered "racist" on this site, despite many being unaware of this), does not lessen the impact it has on others.



HighLlama
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14 Feb 2022, 4:57 am

I don't understand how wh***y refers to skin color, but isn't racist.



envirozentinel
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14 Feb 2022, 5:05 am

@Bric: what I meant is - I have never heard that term used to refer to hair colour or "pale complexion" (yes, looking at you Gollum!) as the poster who used it tried to explain away, but likewise I've heard it describe people of a particular ethnic group. Some are offended by it while others aren't. It is certainly considered offensive or it wouldn't be excised even from the Scrabble listings along with all words considered racist toward any ethnicities whatsoever.

I would request that no one uses that term on WP again, please.


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Brictoria
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14 Feb 2022, 5:18 am

NBC's Chief Foreign Correspondent:
Image

I'm not sure why he neglected to mention (or show) the instructor:
Image

The patch may be perfectly innocent, but strangely, I was unable too find it listed even after looking through pages of Ukrainian military patches on both DDG and Google (I was also unable to find anything resembling the patch on his right arm, either, and there doesn't appear to be the Ukranian flag patch above it the patch on his left arm, which would be expected to be there)...



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14 Feb 2022, 5:46 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
envirozentinel wrote:
I would request that no one uses that term on WP again, please.
Added to the site's auto-censor.


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Kraichgauer
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14 Feb 2022, 5:52 am

I will not use that word again, even though I had used it to describe Assange's hair and porcelain pale skin. C'mon, I'm a white guy myself!


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14 Feb 2022, 5:58 am

Brictoria wrote:
NBC's Chief Foreign Correspondent:
Image

I'm not sure why he neglected to mention (or show) the instructor:
Image

The patch may be perfectly innocent, but strangely, I was unable too find it listed even after looking through pages of Ukrainian military patches on both DDG and Google (I was also unable to find anything resembling the patch on his right arm, either, and there doesn't appear to be the Ukranian flag patch above it the patch on his left arm, which would be expected to be there)...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

Looks like this one to me.
Image


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Brictoria
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14 Feb 2022, 6:16 am

Mikah wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
NBC's Chief Foreign Correspondent:
Image

I'm not sure why he neglected to mention (or show) the instructor:
Image

The patch may be perfectly innocent, but strangely, I was unable too find it listed even after looking through pages of Ukrainian military patches on both DDG and Google (I was also unable to find anything resembling the patch on his right arm, either, and there doesn't appear to be the Ukranian flag patch above it the patch on his left arm, which would be expected to be there)...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

Looks like this one to me.
Image


Thank you for that - I had been able to zoom in on the badge and see the "A", but not read the rest, which would have helped track the unit down - I have no idea why this didn't appear in the searches I did for the badges\patches.

It's certainly an "interesting" battalion according to the link you provided - I wonder how representative of the Ukrainian armed forces (or population in general) they are.



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14 Feb 2022, 6:28 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I will not use that word again, even though I had used it to describe Assange's hair and porcelain pale skin. C'mon, I'm a white guy myself!


I believe you 100%. The racial connotation would've made zero sense regarding the topic. As for a white person using it, I doubt WP would allow a black person to say the N word or b***ie or d***ie, so there you go.



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14 Feb 2022, 8:27 am

Brictoria wrote:
Looks like this one to me.
Image

Thank you for that - I had been able to zoom in on the badge and see the "A", but not read the rest, which would have helped track the unit down - I have no idea why this didn't appear in the searches I did for the badges\patches.

It's certainly an "interesting" battalion according to the link you provided - I wonder how representative of the Ukrainian armed forces (or population in general) they are.

So from this we are to conclude that anyone opposing Putin and Trump's agenda is a Nazi?

After accusing others of using this debating technique so many times?


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14 Feb 2022, 8:34 am

Putin and Trump are cut under the same stripe.

Every "supporter" of them is a "dime a dozen" to them. Once their usefulness has passed, they are disposed of in various ways.

Even if Putin and Trump were flaming, bleeding-heart liberals, I would feel the same way. Andrew Cuomo, liberal extraordinaire, can be said to be quite similar in outlook to Putin and Trump.

They have the mindset of the authoritarian. Trump hasn't proven to be as successful in actually "getting things done" than Putin or Cuomo.



Brictoria
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14 Feb 2022, 6:36 pm

MaxE wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Looks like this one to me.
Image

Thank you for that - I had been able to zoom in on the badge and see the "A", but not read the rest, which would have helped track the unit down - I have no idea why this didn't appear in the searches I did for the badges\patches.

It's certainly an "interesting" battalion according to the link you provided - I wonder how representative of the Ukrainian armed forces (or population in general) they are.

So from this we are to conclude that anyone opposing Putin and Trump's agenda is a Nazi?

If you want to believe that, go ahead.. I doubt many others would be with you on that claim, but everyone has their own opinions (not sure what Trump" has to do with this, though, given the issues with Ukraine\Russia have only occurred while he was not President).

MaxE wrote:
After accusing others of using this debating technique so many times?

Let's put this in simple terms for you, so maybe you will understand...
* If a country has a battalion that is built around a certain belief, that requires from 300-1000 citizens to share that belief and to have signed up to serve in the battalion.
* In order for this to occur, a number of others outside the battalion would also exist in order to share\spread the belief in order to ensure future recruits.
* So, there is a portion of the population which supports the belief.
* There would be other units of the army - 1 single battalion would make a very small army, after all.
* Given the battalion is specifically noted for following this belief (and that there was an attempt to depoliticise it by merging it with other units), there would appear to be other units (as a whole, not individual members, neccesarily) which do not align with the beliefs of the members of this battalion.
* Then we have politicians from outside the country taking actions to increase support for this group, and potentially driving more people towards it:
Quote:
They were there because of Rep. Max Rose, who represents New York’s 11th congressional district. He sent a letter on Oct. 16 to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, signed by 39 of his colleagues, demanding that several international far-right movements, including the Azov movement, be officially placed on the foreign terrorist organization list alongside the Islamic State and al Qaeda. The first group mentioned by name in Rose’s letter is the Azov movement, which, Rose writes, “has been recruiting, radicalizing and training American citizens for years.”

The goal of the letter seems apparent: to draw attention to international far-right extremist groups thought to be inciting acts of terrorism, a growing concern in the wake of the attacks in Christchurch, New Zealand, and similar ones in El Paso, Texas, and Halle, Germany, among others.

But here in Ukraine, Rose’s efforts have backfired. The letter is sloppy, to the point where some of the claims in the letter, especially the claim that the Christchurch shooter admitted to training with Azov, are simply wrong. Yes, Azov is indeed a dangerous far-right movement with global ambitions, something I’ve argued a number of times. But Rose’s letter actually helps Azov’s cause.

[...]

The reality here in Ukraine, however, is a bit more complicated. In a country still at war with Russian-led forces, veterans of all political stripes hold high stature in Ukrainian society. This includes veterans from the Azov Battalion, who are still thought of highly for the defense of cities like Mariupol in eastern Ukraine in 2014. It’s why their far-right, often outright neo-Nazi affiliations are considered secondary to their role as “defenders” and are often downplayed or ignored in mainstream Ukrainian politics and society.

It’s also why negative reaction to the letter in Ukraine has come from more than just Azov itself. Last week, Ukraine’s interior minister, Arsen Avakov—considered the de facto patron of the Azov movement—defended Azov in a meeting with American officials, calling the letter a “shameful information campaign” and claiming that Ukraine would “counter these dirty and insidious methods.”

Even parliamentarians from President Volodymyr Zelensky’s own party, which now dominates Ukraine’s parliament after July’s elections, has defended Azov. A letter signed by 39 Ukrainian MPs, mostly MPs from Zelensky’s Servant of the People party, and sent to the chair of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs said that “attempts to label one of the most decorated official units of the National Guard of Ukraine as a “terrorist organization” or an “overseas violent white supremacist extremist group” weigh heavily on our souls and painfully echo in the hearts of…Ukrainian servicemen, veterans and volunteers.” And outside the doors of the foreign ministry, Deputy Foreign Minister Vasyl Bodnar told representatives of Azov that “the Azov Regiment is a defender of Ukraine, not a terrorist organization.”

Source: https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/01/congress-max-rose-ukraine-azov-terrorism/

So, there is a portion of the population who would share (or have been nudged by outside influence towards) these beliefs, and there is a portion that does not. My question was how large the portion was that shares the belief's\opinions of the battalion.

* At one extreme would be to claim there are less than 1000 people in the country who share those beliefs.
* At the other extreme would be (as you appear to be asserting a belief in) that "anyone opposing Putin and Trump's agenda is a Nazi" (again, not sure what Trump" has to do with this, though, given the issues with Ukraine\Russia have only occurred while he was not President).

Without evidence as to where the line between these extremes is positioned, it is a legitimate question to ask how representative the battalion is of the nation's population, which is merely another way of asking how many people in the nation share the beliefs that this battalion has.



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14 Feb 2022, 6:58 pm

MaxE wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Looks like this one to me.
Image

Thank you for that - I had been able to zoom in on the badge and see the "A", but not read the rest, which would have helped track the unit down - I have no idea why this didn't appear in the searches I did for the badges\patches.

It's certainly an "interesting" battalion according to the link you provided - I wonder how representative of the Ukrainian armed forces (or population in general) they are.

So from this we are to conclude that anyone opposing Putin and Trump's agenda is a Nazi?

After accusing others of using this debating technique so many times?


In 1941 the anti-Russian nationalists in Ukraine allied with the Nazis. Despite their own causalities, the Ukrainians were heavily complicit in the annihilation of 1.6million Ukrainian jews. That mean't the level of collaboration was quite substantial.

Fast forward to the modern border conflict and the local Ukrainian army and populace are quite familiar with far right nationalist militia who train and police border areas. The threat of Russian invasion has mean't neo-Nazi militia are welcomed by Ukrainian forces to bolster defenses. It's not rocket science,