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We are no longer allowed to protest in Britain. At all.

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magz
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10 Nov 2022, 6:17 am

KitLily wrote:
And journalists are the first ones who are being arrested. Funny that eh!! ! Keep the media quiet so the public doesn't know what is happening. Anyway, most of the media in Britain is controlled by right wing billionaires who pump out the same pro government and anti protest message.
No "other media"? Even we managed to defend our liberal-leaning TV, with help of American money...

KitLily wrote:
Protesters can be jailed for 10 years after 6 months being held in jail before their trial. I wouldn't be surprised if they are in line to be deported, too.

Fascism by the back door.
Why is it surprisingly similar to laws in Russia?
Are you planning to invade your former colonies?


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magz
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10 Nov 2022, 6:34 am

Maybe protesting in different space?
Banners on balconies are popular here. Wearing symbols while going about regular lives - rainbow bags got lots of popularity here since our govt started targetting LGBT communities. Of course, social media.
I believe none of the above would be arrest-worthy for now.

Learn creativity from those experienced with opression. Belarussian state banned the white-red-white flag. Reaction:
Image


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Nades
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10 Nov 2022, 8:16 am

Link?

If it's what I'm thinking about it's only really targeted at disruptive protests which is actually long overdue.

Basically, people won't be allowed to protest in a road.



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10 Nov 2022, 8:34 am

Nades wrote:
Link?

If it's what I'm thinking about it's only really targeted at disruptive protests which is actually long overdue.

Basically, people won't be allowed to protest in a road.


The disruptive protests are the cover being used to bring in anti-protest laws that can effectively shut down any type of protest.

Much of the issue is around the language used in the bill. It is deliberately vague and open to interpretation. Ultimate interpretation rests with the Home Secretary of the day, although much of it is deferred to Police chiefs.

Police chiefs have said they don't want this power, and who can blame them? Whichever way they make the call, they're going to get abuse.

Under the proposed bill, any protest that simply makes a noise can be deemed unlawful. Because the bill isn't explicit about the levels of disruption that make a protest illegal, effectively any protest could be illegal.

And the response is, "Yeah, but we won't use these laws to shut down normal protests, just the ones you don't like. Trust us."

This is how rights are lost, people gleefully surrender them because they think some groups they don't agree with are getting their just desserts.


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magz
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10 Nov 2022, 8:53 am

DuckHairback wrote:
And the response is, "Yeah, but we won't use these laws to shut down normal protests, just the ones you don't like. Trust us."

"You" -> "we". Now it looks right.

And, well - even if one trusts this government, law open to abusive interpretations is likely to outlive them, waiting for its big day at hands of some other people.


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DanielW
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10 Nov 2022, 9:02 am

https://theconversation.com/public-orde ... ool-193051



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10 Nov 2022, 9:05 am

magz wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
And the response is, "Yeah, but we won't use these laws to shut down normal protests, just the ones you don't like. Trust us."

"You" -> "we". Now it looks right.

And, well - even if one trusts this government, law open to abusive interpretations is likely to outlive them, waiting for its big day at hands of some other people.


Exactly. I don't want any Home Secretary - Conservative, Labour or anything else to have this power.


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magz
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10 Nov 2022, 9:10 am

DanielW wrote:
https://theconversation.com/public-order-bill-new-law-is-designed-to-stop-climate-protests-but-it-could-actually-give-activists-a-legal-tool-193051

It looks like a poorly designed law. Not a rare thing.


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Nades
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10 Nov 2022, 9:12 am

DuckHairback wrote:
Nades wrote:
Link?

If it's what I'm thinking about it's only really targeted at disruptive protests which is actually long overdue.

Basically, people won't be allowed to protest in a road.


The disruptive protests are the cover being used to bring in anti-protest laws that can effectively shut down any type of protest.

Much of the issue is around the language used in the bill. It is deliberately vague and open to interpretation. Ultimate interpretation rests with the Home Secretary of the day, although much of it is deferred to Police chiefs.

Police chiefs have said they don't want this power, and who can blame them? Whichever way they make the call, they're going to get abuse.

Under the proposed bill, any protest that simply makes a noise can be deemed unlawful. Because the bill isn't explicit about the levels of disruption that make a protest illegal, effectively any protest could be illegal.

And the response is, "Yeah, but we won't use these laws to shut down normal protests, just the ones you don't like. Trust us."

This is how rights are lost, people gleefully surrender them because they think some groups they don't agree with are getting their just desserts.


The vagueness is deliberate. Self defense laws in the UK are similar. No two protests will be the same, just like no two fights so it's left up to a judge or jury to decide the limits of what's proportional during a protest.

The government is hoping common law will fill in the intentional blanks like with self defense.



magz
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10 Nov 2022, 9:52 am

Makes me wonder: does the law target protesting or disruptive behavior?

The link DuckHairback provided says, it e.g. specifically targets self-glueing to things. I've protested a couple of things in my life but never had any need to glue myself to anything.


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10 Nov 2022, 10:07 am

magz wrote:
Makes me wonder: does the law target protesting or disruptive behavior?

The link DuckHairback provided says, it e.g. specifically targets self-glueing to things. I've protested a couple of things in my life but never had any need to glue myself to anything.


The law will be much fairer than people assume. Even noisy protests will be allowed by judges if enough people partake in it. I suspect what this law is aimed at are small groups of protestors causing grossly disproportional interruption to thousands of people.

At the moment as few as two protestors can block tens of thousands of people and many ambulances. This should never be allowed.



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10 Nov 2022, 10:26 am

magz wrote:
No "other media"? Even we managed to defend our liberal-leaning TV, with help of American money...

Why is it surprisingly similar to laws in Russia?
Are you planning to invade your former colonies?


There are other media, but the right wing ones have worked hard to discredit them. Plus the right wing media is cheaper, written at a lower reading age, and there's more of them.

The left wing media tends to be more expensive, more intelligently written and therefore too highbrow for the majority of people.

Probably similar to Britain because there are Russians in our government now. KGB and oligarch Russians. e.g. the Lebedevs. All friends of Boris Johnson and probably the other members of government.


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KitLily
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10 Nov 2022, 10:29 am

magz wrote:
Maybe protesting in different space?
Banners on balconies are popular here. Wearing symbols while going about regular lives - rainbow bags got lots of popularity here since our govt started targetting LGBT communities. Of course, social media.
I believe none of the above would be arrest-worthy for now.

Learn creativity from those experienced with opression. Belarussian state banned the white-red-white flag. Reaction:
Image


We do all that but who knows what will be arrest-worthy soon. :?

Yes...the Brits were oppressed too long ago to remember what it was like...The last time we were conquered was 1066.


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KitLily
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10 Nov 2022, 10:30 am

Nades wrote:
Link?

If it's what I'm thinking about it's only really targeted at disruptive protests which is actually long overdue.

Basically, people won't be allowed to protest in a road.


This: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/public ... i-protest/

No. You didn't read my posts. We can now get arrested if we are 'likely to protest.'

How on earth can the police decide who is 'likely to protest.' It could be anyone! Literally anyone.


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magz
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10 Nov 2022, 10:32 am

Nades wrote:
magz wrote:
Makes me wonder: does the law target protesting or disruptive behavior?

The link DuckHairback provided says, it e.g. specifically targets self-glueing to things. I've protested a couple of things in my life but never had any need to glue myself to anything.


The law will be much fairer than people assume. Even noisy protests will be allowed by judges if enough people partake in it. I suspect what this law is aimed at are small groups of protestors causing grossly disproportional interruption to thousands of people.

At the moment as few as two protestors can block tens of thousands of people and many ambulances. This should never be allowed.
Then, we rely on judicary independence - which is one of the pillars of modern governing system.
Not that it it's never targetted, I'm living in a prime example of such an attempt.


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KitLily
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10 Nov 2022, 10:35 am

Nades wrote:
The vagueness is deliberate. Self defense laws in the UK are similar. No two protests will be the same, just like no two fights so it's left up to a judge or jury to decide the limits of what's proportional during a protest.

The government is hoping common law will fill in the intentional blanks like with self defense.


Yes. Vagueness will leave the decision up to individual police officers and judges. If they don't like the look of you, you'll be in trouble. Very subjective.

I want clear laws that don't allow someone to take a dislike to me and punish me for that. Thinking about it, aren't autistic people always being accused of 'acting weird'? So any police officer could decide we are 'acting weird' and arrest us, then saying we looked 'likely to protest'.

Like that case in the USA, where the man was arrested by police officers for winding up his car window. WTF.


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