Whistleblower claims US govt has non-human craft

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I was debating with some folks here on WP about crop circles.

One crop circle in England even has the phrase spelled out "we are not alone".

I was laughing at the dumb earthbound pranksters who are obviously behind it, and said shouldnt it read "YOU are not alone"...if they want us to believe that English fluent aliens are addressing us?

Some replied that..the aliens might be imperfect in their mastery of English and have gotten their grammar a little bit off.

Could be.

Or...maybe theyre off in their understanding of what...we humans understand. And they think that we know about them (just one alien species), and were informing us that "we" (your species and our species together) are ...not "alone", and that there are -gawd knows how many - dozens of OTHER aliens species cruising around as well!

So ...we humans are like the woman being addressed by blues singer Denise LaSalle when she sings "your husband is cheating on both of us".


https://youtu.be/iUt1QP-Kb-E?list=RDiUt1QP-Kb-E

Last edited by naturalplastic on 09 Jun 2023, 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Keep in mind that crop circles have been appearing across the world for more than a century (not unlike cattle mutilations) and that once they were classified as anomalous phenomena in the late 80s/early 90s it spurred a lot of pranks which made it difficult for the media to take them seriously anymore.

Also keep in mind that Doug Bower and Dave Chorley who come forward with the claim that they were behind the mysterious crop circle phenomenon was also blindly accepted by the international media at the time,

One question neither could answer is how these clowns could travel across continents and create such complex patterns using two planks of wood attached to rope??

Of two competing theories, the simpler explanation of an entity is to be preferred.  Which is more likely?

a. The U.S. government is in possession of extra-terrestrial technology, and the "whistleblower" betrayed his country.

b. The U.S. government is NOT in possession of extra-terrestrial technology, and the "whistleblower" lied.

(Hint: I will pick this 'B' option every time.)

Whistleblowers who publicise government secrets end up in jail (too many to list). I think a. is a possibility.

US Military have been dropping secrets about UFOs for decades
Maj. Gen. John A. Samford's Statement on "Flying Saucers", Pentagon, Washington, DC, 07/31/1952 in response to a question about the Air force Project Blue Book examination of UFO data


"The great bulk of UFO sightings can be explained as hoaxes or aircraft or meteorological or electronic phenomena or light aberration, However, a certain percentage of this volume of reports have been made by credible observers of relatively incredible things. In this group of observations that we are now attempting to resolve. Our basic difficulty in dealing with these is there is no measurement of them that makes us able to put them in any pattern.
We can categorically state than none of the sightings are connected to any development by any department or agency in the United States".


When Project blue book was published in the form of the Condon Report in 1969 it was universally declared a stitch-up but even then 5% of anomalous sightings were classified by Condon as "unknown". It's this 5% that was referred to back in 1952 by General Stamford which "credible witnesses" can be interpreted to mean members of the military, airforce or navy.

The objects described include tic tacs which (surprise surprise) were disclosed in 2017. It doesn't take too much effort to sift through past literature/interviews to find what is a discovery in the last 5 years has been an ongoing cover-up for decades.

Now the only question is.....why?

The narratives around this are funny. I'm actually starting to worry that we're really not competent to react (particularly if the average person had to think on their feet).

posted that video on another thread. The family involved saw something land in their backyard (the same light observed on the police body cam). On that there's no dispute something hit since the neighbour's security cam pickup the moment the object hit the yard.

Skeptics say the family hoaxed it. If that's the case it's the world's fastest hoax since it's literally 1-2 min after the object crashed that all 4 family members decided "hey let's ignore that weird thing that crashed in our yard and let's all call 911 and pretend there are 8-10 foot aliens then when they get here we'll hide the debri and then risk getting jailed for calling 911 on fake premises by making up a story that's guaranteed not to be believed by anyone"

If you listen to the audio, the caller was actually terrified.

Last edited by cyberdad on 11 Jun 2023, 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

What I meant was the Hill anchor on the left was saying things that reminded me of the rooftop UFO party that got blasted on Independence Day. It shows a certain kind of detachment from reality that I think a lot of these people have. Michael Shellenberger said something about 'ontological shock'? That's definitely a less-crude way of putting it but yeah.

Yep, posted that video too....ontological shock is what I experienced when I was 7 years old; But in my 7 year old mind I tried to accept that orb shaped lights exist and dance around the Indian ocean and chase each other like fireflies around 2-3am at night.

Can't remember if I ever asked you about Vallee but - I find his take on the phenomena most compelling (it was hilarious to hear Mick West just ridicule it as a sign of aberrant psychology in Vallee for not being a good, prim and proper reductive materialist when talking to Eric Weinstein). We've been seeing things like this for a long time and calling them jinn, fairies, etc.. and the behavior of most of these entities doesn't match anything you'd expect from an alien civilization that developed technologies unless they're so fundamentally different that manually building technologies is a foreign concept and whatever they have is more biological than anything (so no-tech with almost pigmy-like behavior looking to us like our advanced brothers, from a pedestrian sidewalk view, because their 'ships' do things we can't explain and all we can imagine is they got there the way we'd need to through R&D).

Not impossible at that rate that they could be both extradimensional and extraterrestrial but I'd still rather chew on the extradimensional hypothesis first since it seems the most important. I've heard Jason Reza Jorjani talk about time-traveling breakaway civilizations but... again the behavior of these phenomena are not super-advanced, when they're not solid beings (grays, bigfoot, etc.) behaving like pre-human forms of evolution a lot of it is wrapped in all kinds of Jungian behavior. I think this is where our reductive materialist assumptions are really throwing us a loop whereas you take a lens like Donald Hoffman and Chetan Prakash's Conscious Realism and it gets a lot less strange.

Another thing worth looking at if you've never heard of it or read it (no need to read if it doesn't appeal but there are interviews around the book) - 'The Trickster and the Paranormal' by George P. Hansen. He had a few decades in paranormal research, noticed strange correlations about both the field and it's skeptics, liminality, and from there he speaks of the concept of 'antistructure' (something that came from postmodernism initially) as a unifying lens for how these phenomena work - a bit like they're almost an artifact of shared-reality making, the gaps in coverage, or maybe in Jorjani terms they'd be the results of the gaps in Atlas's sight (from his Prometheus and Atlas). The irrationality of these things seems to suggest that they could be something like homeostatic feedback loops in the nature of reality that are hidden from us outside of particularly bright examples - such as yetis departing UFO's and leaving burn marks on the grass. Jacques Vallee really pounded on this corner of the phenomena early on, ie. that the communication would seem meaningless until you looked not at the communication content itself but it's impacts on the experiencers and subsequent political effects (so very subconscious and manipulative in flavor).

That's part of why I have a hard time imagining this phenomena ever properly 'jumping the shark' and exposing itself bare for the whole world to believe its real. It could, it's just that I'm not sure that's what it would even desire if it is part of a homeostatic function of the larger system. If it stays ambiguous for the next several decades, even with renewed public interest and government admissions to having ships, it'll be strange to watch that go nowhere but I'm guessing that's what may still happen - particularly when it's not a 'species meeting species' phenomena in the sense we're expecting it to be like Portuguese sailors meeting native Americans.

Do you mean Dr Jacques Vallee? Yes, he was also an experiencer. He also subscribes to the multidimensional visitation hypothesis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdime ... hypothesis

In my memory of these orbs that I witnessed from my home, I not only watched them from the window of my bedroom flying over the Indian ocean, but they also flew into my bedroom, I'm not talking 1-2 but there were sometimes hundreds of orbs of all shapes and colours in my room. I would sit in wonderment in my room watching as they dances around and interacted with each other. They are almost similar to animated Japanese Ghibli entities or spirits in how playful and childlike they were (although this was 2 decades before I ever watched a Japanese animation)

These orbs that I saw (whether outside or inside my house) were distinctly alive, in other words, rather than being a manned craft or remote controlled drone I had the distinct perception they were living biological entities. So rather than extraterrestrial, I wonder if these are some type of inter-dimensional life form?

The idea of interdimensional origin for UFOs has been around for some time and seems > plausibility than a craft traversing millions of light years to reach our solar system. Not just alien tech popping in and out of wormholes but also biological entities that move (phase?) in and out of their dimension and ours.

Around 20 years ago, Mexican UFO investigator Jaimie Maussan had thousands of videos he collected around Mexico of what appeared to be shape shifting entities that moved in a worm like manner and created multiple little orb like lights that left and re-entered the mother-ship or....mother?? somehow I can't seem to find these videos anymore on the internet?

Yes this interdimensional theory also feeds into explaining the existence of nearly all paranormal anomalies.
Bigfoot
chucabra
Sea serpents
giant birds
monsters
skin walkers
ghosts etc etc....

e.g. Thousands are convinced they have seen bigfoot, yet there is no biological footprints, not a single strand of hair to analyse? this fact has been used to debunk the existence of bigfoot by biologists who scoff that such a creature would leave evidence and could not hide because of their sheet size, However, if they were capable of phasing in and out of portals into our dimension that could explain how they might pop into our dimension, grab some berries and munch on a possum or deer and phase back to their home.

I'm guessing the relative difference between entities that have advanced tech to us might be well greater > Columbus and native Americans. We don't even know what these hypothetical (and yes I am careful to not accept they exist re: occam's razor) entities are? are they (assuming they exist)
a. artificial intelligence
b, biological shape shifting entities
c. humanoid
d. reptilian
e, ghost entities? I mean the list can go on and on....

David Grusch (the US intelligence whistle blower) refers to "pilots" so I assume he is saying they are beings with flesh. This reminds me of the Roswell crash whistleblowers reference to little humanoids which ties in with the thousands upon thousands of alien abductees experience with the greys. Alien abduction is yet another untapped mine of experiences that could be inter-dimensional. A lot of abductees refer to greys being able to move through walls and that when they are carried away that their own bodies are able to phase through solid barriers like walls and furniture. Could they be experiencing a spiritual abduction?? one's imagination can go in thousands of different directions....

The interdimensional hypothesis almost seems like an extension of something like shadow biome where they simply don't leave on-ramps into the DNA or fossil record. The additional step would be, reconceiving the cosmose as either neutral monist / contextual emergent or even absolute idealist, there would be places for such beings to live which might not as often have overt causal relationships with the world. The one place where that gets interesting is nuclear power, that seems to have done something across places but how we perhaps wouldn't know at this point.


Yeah, my internal debate on said entities is between two possibilities:

1) Are they autonomous beings living autonomous lives and visiting us of their own will?

2) Are they contrived images brought to us by or out of the same abstract intelligence, ie. where they're interchangeable puppets that come and go? Yetis debarking UFOs and other strange oddities like that seem to suggest this.

If they're serving a homeostatic function it seems to point in the later direction, however it could be that we're missing huge cultures and economies perhaps being lead by higher systems - such as some people might say about jinn, merpeoples, and other parallel civilizations 'living next door'.

Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 11 Jun 2023, 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I want to believe this stuff is real cuz really, who wants boring old reality? But I do have to wonder if these whistleblowers really just want attention

That view doesn't absorb Darwinian game theory well - ie. preferability for the 'less mundane' on it's own terms.