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ascan
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14 Sep 2007, 2:57 pm

autodidact wrote:
Agreed. But there are many different types of fascist! Those who admit it like the BNP and those who favour the softly-softly approach like Labour and the Tories. The ID thing is baaaad news.

I don't see why you think the BNP are fascist. Parties are shaped by their members. The BNP, being still relatively small, is more malleable in that respect. Indeed, they have changed significantly over the last few years and have ditched the more extreme element. Surely, that is what democracy should be about? Are we not sick of having to choose between a rock and a hard place -- between Labour and Conservative. Between two parties that just give us more of the same lies and deceit?

Like I said, lots of people are concerned about immigration. Those concerns are justified. The conservatives and Labour do nothing about it. The minimum that should be done is to stop all immigration from Islamic countries; the BNP are the only people who will dare suggest that.



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14 Sep 2007, 3:04 pm

ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Agreed. But there are many different types of fascist! Those who admit it like the BNP and those who favour the softly-softly approach like Labour and the Tories. The ID thing is baaaad news.

I don't see why you think the BNP are fascist. Parties are shaped by their members. The BNP, being still relatively small, is more malleable in that respect. Indeed, they have changed significantly over the last few years and have ditched the more extreme element. Surely, that is what democracy should be about? Are we not sick of having to choose between a rock and a hard place -- between Labour and Conservative. Between two parties that just give us more of the same lies and deceit?

Like I said, lots of people are concerned about immigration. Those concerns are justified. The conservatives and Labour do nothing about it. The minimum that should be done is to stop all immigration from Islamic countries; the BNP are the only people who will dare suggest that.


What!!?? Stop all immigration from muslim countries? - That's religious persecution. I suppose that you think all muslims, or the vast majority are terrorists? You IDIOT!

Look up the following, you may them informative;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party


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ascan
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14 Sep 2007, 3:12 pm

autodidact wrote:
That's religious persecution...

No. It's commonsense. That's the problem, you see, with your leftist style thinking. You're too wrapped up in all this idealistic nonsense about persecution and prejudice. You miss the point that by increasing the muslim population that you're increasing the probability of civil unrest in the not too distant future. The reasons for that are several, not least being the way that Islam is currently taught by its hierarchy. It's not compatible with a free democratic way of life.

You suggested I may think that they're all terrorists. I don't. But if one in a thousand is a terrorist, then by letting in tens of thousands each year you're not doing yourself any favours, are you?



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14 Sep 2007, 3:19 pm

ascan wrote:
Hadron wrote:
...The hits on the website are from two main demographics, the poor, dim and uneducated, and people in affluent areas that looked out of curiosity ...

You're mixing fact with speculation, Hadron:

C. Hope in the Telegraph wrote:
...Young and well educated city dwellers are also over-represented amongst visitors to the BNP's homepage [...] The proportion of the site's visitors that come from the middle classes is also increasing: 59pc are from the more affluent ABC1 social groups, and this figure is up from 50pc two years ago, Hitwise said.


Hadron wrote:
...Just because a large amount of people agree with a policy doesnt make it right, it just shows ignorant people can be manipulated...

Doesn't make it right, true enough. But it certainly makes it worthy of debate. As for your bit about ignorance and manipulation, it would be quite easy to level that allegation at you. Afterall, all that you and that autodidact chap have done is disgorge the usual litany of state-inculcated crap. Like it or not, lots, if not most, of the British population are sick of our country being swamped with immigrants. Even the immigrants who've settled here are sick of it, because they see this country changing from the democratic and free ideal to which they were originally attracted, to some crime-ridden multicultural-dump which increasingly resembles the third-world hell-holes from whence they originally came.

Hadron wrote:
...Immigration does benefit our ecomomy btw,

That's a matter of opinion, and the question that really needs to be answered is not that one, but of benefit to our society overall.

If you actually knew how they defined ABC1, then you wouldnt have used it in an arguement. It is not a measure of intelligence, I assure you, its a measure of occupation. You can be ignorant and be ABC1 you know.

As for me being manipulated, I assure you I keep and open mind, in fact i have attacked certain groups of immigrants, those who show up and want to change our nation into something that I object to. But they are a minority, no need to tar all immigrants with the same brush, and there are equally those who want to contribute to our society. As for our country, its more who is leaving, rather than those who are immigrating that I would look at. As for the rest of your stuff, you cannot evidence it at all. If you look at statistics, crime hasnt gone up very much, if at all over the last 10 years. The police are just getting better at their jobs.



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14 Sep 2007, 3:22 pm

autodidact wrote:
ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Agreed. But there are many different types of fascist! Those who admit it like the BNP and those who favour the softly-softly approach like Labour and the Tories. The ID thing is baaaad news.

I don't see why you think the BNP are fascist. Parties are shaped by their members. The BNP, being still relatively small, is more malleable in that respect. Indeed, they have changed significantly over the last few years and have ditched the more extreme element. Surely, that is what democracy should be about? Are we not sick of having to choose between a rock and a hard place -- between Labour and Conservative. Between two parties that just give us more of the same lies and deceit?

Like I said, lots of people are concerned about immigration. Those concerns are justified. The conservatives and Labour do nothing about it. The minimum that should be done is to stop all immigration from Islamic countries; the BNP are the only people who will dare suggest that.


What!!?? Stop all immigration from muslim countries? - That's religious persecution. I suppose that you think all muslims, or the vast majority are terrorists? You IDIOT!

Look up the following, you may them informative;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party

He has a point on the muslims unfortuantly, 40% of them do want to change this country into Sharia law. Those ones should have been turfed out probably, given they dont actually want to become a constructive part of society. Sharia law is politically sanctified out and out facism, under the guise of a religion.



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14 Sep 2007, 3:25 pm

ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
That's religious persecution...

No. It's commonsense. That's the problem, you see, with your leftist style thinking. You're too wrapped up in all this idealistic nonsense about persecution and prejudice. You miss the point that by increasing the muslim population that you're increasing the probability of civil unrest in the not too distant future. The reasons for that are several, not least being the way that Islam is currently taught by its hierarchy. It's not compatible with a free democratic way of life.


F**k left! F**k Right, and the middle. AS I SAID BEFORE, I THINK FOR MYSELF YOU MORON! Why anyone would subscribe wholeheartedly and without question to any ideology is beyond me.

ascan wrote:
[You suggested I may think that they're all terrorists. I don't. But if one in a thousand is a terrorist, then by letting in tens of thousands each year you're not doing yourself any favours, are you?


Guilty until proven innocent? - This sounds extremely FASCIST to me..


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14 Sep 2007, 3:28 pm

Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Agreed. But there are many different types of fascist! Those who admit it like the BNP and those who favour the softly-softly approach like Labour and the Tories. The ID thing is baaaad news.

I don't see why you think the BNP are fascist. Parties are shaped by their members. The BNP, being still relatively small, is more malleable in that respect. Indeed, they have changed significantly over the last few years and have ditched the more extreme element. Surely, that is what democracy should be about? Are we not sick of having to choose between a rock and a hard place -- between Labour and Conservative. Between two parties that just give us more of the same lies and deceit?

Like I said, lots of people are concerned about immigration. Those concerns are justified. The conservatives and Labour do nothing about it. The minimum that should be done is to stop all immigration from Islamic countries; the BNP are the only people who will dare suggest that.


What!!?? Stop all immigration from muslim countries? - That's religious persecution. I suppose that you think all muslims, or the vast majority are terrorists? You IDIOT!

Look up the following, you may them informative;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party

He has a point on the muslims unfortuantly, 40% of them do want to change this country into Sharia law. Those ones should have been turfed out probably, given they dont actually want to become a constructive part of society. Sharia law is politically sanctified out and out facism, under the guise of a religion.


That's just it! - Many evils have been perpetrated under the name of religon. Who says Sharia law is true Islam? Don't trust statistics either. They are usually manipulated.


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Last edited by autodidact on 14 Sep 2007, 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ascan
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14 Sep 2007, 3:31 pm

Hadron wrote:
If you actually knew how they defined ABC1, then you wouldnt have used it in an arguement. It is not a measure of intelligence, I assure you, its a measure of occupation. You can be ignorant and be ABC1 you know.

I never linked it to intelligence, Hadron. I'm fully aware of what ABC1 means, you know. I merely extracted a quote to properly inform you, rather than allow you to speculate.

Hadron wrote:
As for the rest of your stuff, you cannot evidence it at all. If you look at statistics, crime hasnt gone up very much, if at all over the last 10 years. The police are just getting better at their jobs.

You've rather more faith in the police than I have. I hear they're very good at tackling "hate crime" and people breaking the speed limit by 5mph, but that's it. I know from experience the response you'll get if you have property stolen, though -- they're not interested.



Last edited by ascan on 14 Sep 2007, 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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14 Sep 2007, 3:31 pm

autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Agreed. But there are many different types of fascist! Those who admit it like the BNP and those who favour the softly-softly approach like Labour and the Tories. The ID thing is baaaad news.

I don't see why you think the BNP are fascist. Parties are shaped by their members. The BNP, being still relatively small, is more malleable in that respect. Indeed, they have changed significantly over the last few years and have ditched the more extreme element. Surely, that is what democracy should be about? Are we not sick of having to choose between a rock and a hard place -- between Labour and Conservative. Between two parties that just give us more of the same lies and deceit?

Like I said, lots of people are concerned about immigration. Those concerns are justified. The conservatives and Labour do nothing about it. The minimum that should be done is to stop all immigration from Islamic countries; the BNP are the only people who will dare suggest that.


What!!?? Stop all immigration from muslim countries? - That's religious persecution. I suppose that you think all muslims, or the vast majority are terrorists? You IDIOT!

Look up the following, you may them informative;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party

He has a point on the muslims unfortuantly, 40% of them do want to change this country into Sharia law. Those ones should have been turfed out probably, given they dont actually want to become a constructive part of society. Sharia law is politically sanctified out and out facism, under the guise of a religion.


That's just it! - Many evils have been perpetrated under the name of religon. Who says Sharia law is true Islam?

Its in the Koran, you know the word of their God. We should be sending out those who want to live under Sharia to a country more of their tastes, Saudi Arabia perhaps. As for true Islam, thats a point of view, the reality is there are lots of "muslims" in this country thats shouldnt be here.



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14 Sep 2007, 3:33 pm

Hadron wrote:
... We should be sending out those who want to live under Sharia to a country more of their tastes, Saudi Arabia perhaps. As for true Islam, thats a point of view, the reality is there are lots of "muslims" in this country thats shouldnt be here.

So, you agree with some BNP policy, then?



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14 Sep 2007, 3:35 pm

Hadron wrote:
Its in the Koran, you know the word of their God. We should be sending out those who want to live under Sharia to a country more of their tastes, Saudi Arabia perhaps. As for true Islam, thats a point of view, the reality is there are lots of "muslims" in this country thats shouldnt be here.


Your confusing the word 'muslim' with 'terrorist' :roll: why shouldn't muslims or people from any faith come here?


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14 Sep 2007, 3:37 pm

ascan wrote:
Hadron wrote:
If you actually knew how they defined ABC1, then you wouldnt have used it in an arguement. It is not a measure of intelligence, I assure you, its a measure of occupation. You can be ignorant and be ABC1 you know.

I never linked it to intelligence, Hadron. I'm fully aware of what ABC1 means, you know. I merely extracted a quote to properly inform you, rather than allow you to speculate.

Hadron wrote:
As for the rest of your stuff, you cannot evidence it at all. If you look at statistics, crime hasnt gone up very much, if at all over the last 10 years. The police are just getting better at their jobs.

You've rather more faith in the police than I have. I hear they're very good at tackling "hate crime" and people breaking the speed limit by 5mph, but that's it. I know from experience the response you'll get if you have property stolen, though -- they're not interested.

I read a different source that painted a different picture today, i think it might have been BBC. The Telegraph is hardly the greatest of sources.

Yes the police are tackling PC crime on occasion, but bear in mind that it is very disproportionately represented in the media. There are more people in jail under Labour than the Tories, something must be working, in terms of catching criminals. As for theft, get a nice dog if you are really worried. :P



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14 Sep 2007, 3:39 pm

autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
Its in the Koran, you know the word of their God. We should be sending out those who want to live under Sharia to a country more of their tastes, Saudi Arabia perhaps. As for true Islam, thats a point of view, the reality is there are lots of "muslims" in this country thats shouldnt be here.


Your confusing the word 'muslim' with 'terrorist' :roll: why shouldn't muslims or people from any faith come here?


Given the rather steamy issue here....yeh...why would you want to come to a country while there's considerable residue after people of your faith did stuff that got everyone het up?


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14 Sep 2007, 3:42 pm

Hadron wrote:
...There are more people in jail under Labour than the Tories...

That fact, on its own, means little, Hadron.



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14 Sep 2007, 3:43 pm

autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
Its in the Koran, you know the word of their God. We should be sending out those who want to live under Sharia to a country more of their tastes, Saudi Arabia perhaps. As for true Islam, thats a point of view, the reality is there are lots of "muslims" in this country thats shouldnt be here.


Your confusing the word 'muslim' with 'terrorist' :roll: why shouldn't muslims or people from any faith come here?

No. I am pointing out their attitudes, and how a large section of them do not want to live here. As for faith, people choose to follow it, so they can be held to account for what they choose to believe. I hate the way they can hide under some sancrosanct delusion called a religion. If you are going to attack facism, stop being selective about it. Quite a fair bit of Islamic teaching is on par with the BNP, some of it on par with the NF. Some people need to wake up and move into the twenty first century, quite a lot of Muslims dont seem to have ideologically got out of the 15th.

Ascan, I dont agree with that BNP policy. The BNP policy is to do it on racial grounds, as opposed to where I stand, which is hold people to account for all their choices.



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14 Sep 2007, 3:43 pm

sigholdaccountlost wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
Its in the Koran, you know the word of their God. We should be sending out those who want to live under Sharia to a country more of their tastes, Saudi Arabia perhaps. As for true Islam, thats a point of view, the reality is there are lots of "muslims" in this country thats shouldnt be here.


Your confusing the word 'muslim' with 'terrorist' :roll: why shouldn't muslims or people from any faith come here?


Given the rather steamy issue here....yeh...why would you want to come to a country while there's considerable residue after people of your faith did stuff that got everyone het up?


I do not understand your poor grammar. Are you saying 'Why would anyone want to come to the UK in the current climate of immigrant paranoia?'


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