Day of reckoning for the Large Hadron Collider...

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twoshots
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09 Sep 2008, 8:50 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
I accept that the LHC could well come up with things that may be useful in the future, but regardless, there are more immediate problems in the here and now.

Absolutely not.


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ShadesOfMe
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09 Sep 2008, 8:52 pm

jrknothead wrote:
Glad to.

For years, theoretical physicists have pondered the reason they can't account for 90% of the mass in the universe... they suppose that the bulk of mass resides in a substance called 'dark matter' which they can't seem to locate.

What the Large Hadron Collider will do is, it will let them fire two streams of protons in opposite directions, which then accellerate to very near the speed of light, and collide on the other side, simulating conditions that occurred at the beginning of the universe..

Huge detectors at the point of collision will tell them if anything escapes that is or is not matter, whether it be the so-called 'Dark matter', or some ordinary matter, or a new kind of particle heretofore undiscovered.

A fellow named Higgs postulated what such a particle might consist of, and this particle has been given the name of "The Higgs Boson" which nobody has ever seen.

So, when they fire up the collider next month (after a month of rigorous testing to make sure everything works alright), the collider either will or will not produce Higgs Bosons... if it does, then they can study the new particle... If it doesn't produce Higgs Bosons or any other new particle, well then they just wasted 10 billion dollars and it's back to the drawing board.


Thanks For the explanation. The way you worded it makes a lot more sense to me. :D



iamnotaparakeet
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09 Sep 2008, 9:16 pm

twoshots wrote:
LeKiwi wrote:
I accept that the LHC could well come up with things that may be useful in the future, but regardless, there are more immediate problems in the here and now.

Absolutely not.


There are 4,000 people where I live and less than 50 small businesses. Very difficult to get work here. As for out of city jobs, my step-dad can/will only provide transportation for 1st shift hours.



LeKiwi
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10 Sep 2008, 2:23 am

twoshots wrote:
LeKiwi wrote:
I accept that the LHC could well come up with things that may be useful in the future, but regardless, there are more immediate problems in the here and now.

Absolutely not.



Tell that to the 6th of the world's population who struggle to eat a meal every two days and watch their children die from lack of clean water. I'm sure they'd feel so great that billions have been spent by a bunch of scientists in prosperous Europe so they can smash particles together. :roll:


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jrknothead
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10 Sep 2008, 3:00 am

If getting clean water was a priority for those starvin marvins then they'd be getting together and building aqueducts, like the romans did 2000 years ago, without the benefit of any modern convenience, using only what materials were at hand.

They seem to be able to get together to machete the next village ok, and theres no shortage of cash for their AK-47s...

How many multi-million dollar US and French fighter jets are in Ethiopia's arsenal? I bet it's more than enough to buy several water treatment plants and a damn fine agricultural program...



LeKiwi
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10 Sep 2008, 12:36 pm

Build aqueducts with what, sand? And who's going to look after the orphans, bearing in mind most of the adults are dead and it's kids looking after kids. Who'll cook what little food they have while they're building these massive constructions out of sand? Who'll nurse the sick and poor?

And last I heard, 1 billion people don't live in Ethiopia. I'm talking about masses of countries across the world.


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jrknothead
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10 Sep 2008, 2:48 pm

Back to the subject at hand:
Successful test for Europe's Big Bang collider

Quote:
GENEVA - The world's biggest physics experiment has succeeded in its first major test as a beam of protons was successfully fired all the way around a 17-mile tunnel beneath the Swiss-French border.

The protons traveled the full length Wednesday of the $3.8 billion Large Hadron Collider that scientists hope is the next great step to understand the makeup of the universe. There were a series of trial runs.

Two white dots flashed on a computer screen indicating that the protons reached the final point of the world's largest particle collider.

Scientists hope to see what the components of atoms are made of by smashing them together. The startup had been eagerly awaited by 9,000 physicists around the world who will conduct experiments here.



And my final word on the subject of the starving billions- I have several free Big Mac coupons... any starving ethiopian who shows up at my door is welcome to have one...



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10 Sep 2008, 2:54 pm

You mean ... we're not dead yet?


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iamnotaparakeet
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10 Sep 2008, 2:59 pm

*Gunshots*

Now you all are. :P



Prof_Pretorius
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10 Sep 2008, 3:01 pm

I'm hiding under my bed just in case ....


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jrknothead
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10 Sep 2008, 3:05 pm

Fnord wrote:
You mean ... we're not dead yet?


Not for another month... the testing phase will end then, and they will fire two beams in opposite directions... til then you're safe...



nirrti_rachelle
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10 Sep 2008, 3:33 pm

Oh well. I guess we survived


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Last edited by nirrti_rachelle on 10 Sep 2008, 3:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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10 Sep 2008, 3:38 pm

DWill wrote:
Personally I think that the knowledge we will gain from that particle accelerator is worth more than all the money on the planet or any new gadget that could come from it. But that's just me.

I find it unbelievable that someone is trying to use legal action to stop it though. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


Agreed. The knowledge gained from the experiment is priceless. A lot of people think space travel/exploration is a big waste of money, too, but I think they're wrong. Yes, it's expensive, but we can learn so much about our universe from it. I don't know why we need a mission to Mars, either, but it probably falls along the lines of why Mount Everest was first scaled many years ago -- because it's there. Whatever happened to the same spirit of adventure that once took us to the moon?


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Ishmael
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10 Sep 2008, 3:46 pm

The stupid media-prank that the "world was going to end on the 10th", made light of a serious issue. Walter probability factor!
Or uncertainty principle; whichever you subscribe to.
There is a possibility of stable micro-black holes, which could consume the earth. I know; improbable. But - the arrogance of these people!! ! To gamble the only known inhabited world, even if chaos-chance scale is relatively small, is obscene. Where's my vote? Why do they have the right to involve me in an experiment that may still - in coming months - prove deadly?

This is an experiment that should be done extra orbitally! Granted; it would cost thirteen times as much - an insignificant fraction of these combined nations' military budgets!

Abstract knowledge is a wonderful thing; but the device has several key flaws that corner-cutting budget controls won't help... We're not in the clear yet! Within the next two months we should see what theories hold salt... I disagree with Hawkings radiation theory - to base all safety precautions on an untested, proof-less and highly theoretical concept is ludicrous!
Danger to a town or nation is one thing; risking the only known sentient life?
My colleagues in Europe ought to be ashamed of their arrogance in assuming everything.


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10 Sep 2008, 5:53 pm

Rationally speaking since it is unethical to kill even 1 person in the name of research then since there are 6.721 billion people on earth then if the odds were say a 1 in 6.721 billion chance of killing 6.71 billion people (and I don't know if anybody is claiming the chance of a black hole can be shown to be anywhere near that slim) it cannot rationally be allowed in law (IE you can't go around killing people) because this is effectively the same level of risk as a 1 in 1 chance of killing 1 person.

Do you think if I gunned down the entire research team I could get off a murder charge by pointing out that in every case there was a greater than 1 in 6.721 billion chance that they would've survived a gunshot to the head?



twoshots
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10 Sep 2008, 6:14 pm

Christ's sake people. 1) The LHC won't be producing black holes, assuming the truth of the Standard Model which is the most accepted model for this sort of stuff. 2) If it did, they'd evaporate rapidly 3) If they didn't evaporate, these sorts of black holes would exist in cosmic rays that are already bombarding earth and other celestial objects. All this stuff about "the earth is going to be destroyed" is based off of work that hasn't stood up to peer review at all. There is no good science behind the doomsday predictions. PERIOD.


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