Maybe 40 dead in Bushfires

Post Reply New Topic

California has the Santa Ana winds - winds that come from Sierra Nevada and the deserts of Arizona. Australia's problem is the eucalyptus which is almost literally gasoline to the fire and the shifting winds.

They have eucalyptus in California, too. They plant it there because it's fast growing.

Canada's had a few suburbs singed (the Kelowna/Kamloops fires a few years ago) but nothing like what happens in California or Australia. Hope it ends soon.

Grisly body search continues

166 people are now known dead in those brushfires in the state of Victoria, Australia;
this doesn't include dead people whose bodies have not yet been found--

To make matters worse, rumours are flying that at least some of the fires were arson?

Last edited by Douglas_MacNeill on 10 Feb 2009, 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

When we get northerly winds, they have crossed the desert to get here. They are fast and hot
I do agree that California is the only other place in the world that I know of that get fires like we do.

I looked at the map that ABC put up, and the affected area isn't very far from the outskirts of suburban Melbourne, maybe 20-30 miles. Once you go 30 miles from Sacramento, you're into the Gold Country, places like Auburn and Placerville and Jackson where people live and commute into the city. I've been doing a lot of driving up there, and it's an urban forest like the Kinglake-Strathewen area likely was, houses right next to each other.

The thing about California is that while we have some eucalyptus, we don't have whole forests of it like they do down there. Our eucalyptus is all imported, much of it was planted by the US Army in the 19th century because they thought that manzanita wasn't erosion resistant enough, now they know that manzanita has evolved for just that purpose. For the last 20 years there's been a program to rip out Army planted eucalyptus at places like San Bruno Mountain just south of the San Francisco city limits.

Down in Southern California they have chaparral, which goes up like gasoline too, only chaparral is brushy, not a tree like eucalyptus, so in areas that haven't been artificially forested there's enough time to get out. The destructive fires in SoCal are in places where man has planted trees, much of it eucalyptus, for shade. It gets into the trees and takes off. In northern Nevada the sagebrush they have isn't as oily, but years of drought have weakened it, so fire does occur, and when it does it takes many decades to grow back. So far no huge urban fires have happened in Nevada, then again most of it is unpopulated, 90% of the people are in Las Vegas.

Reno has a problem with urban fire, especially in the southwest sector where homes are built along ridgelines and the valleys or arroyos are left fallow. Fire gets in there and rushes into the houses, but just two or three burn at a time. Reno has a problem with people planting junipers to comply with drought resistant landscaping laws, and junipers go up like gasoline too, and people plant them along walls.

The big concern in the mountains is the city of South Lake Tahoe, 25,000 people in the midst of a very sick and dying forest. Already they lost 250 homes in one area. If fire ever got into the neighborhoods of the central city, the whole place could go up. The other mountain city is Truckee, but most of the areas on the perimeter there are new and the homeowners associations pay to make firebreaks.

back to australia:

It really is quite overwhelming watching the news here at present becuae of the news coverge of the fires.
i am usually fully absorbed in current affairs in the evenings, and yet last night was the first time i actually watched extended coverage on the fires.

we have a pretty brutal kind of landscape and flora here. it is a tough environment and the australian bush actually REQUIRES fire on a sporadic basis in order for some plane species to germinate and activate. In a sense, bushfire is a part of our national psyche - probably even moreso than California with its Santa Ana winds - for this very reason. The indigenous people knew how to harness and utilise fire in roder to get the most out of the land.

I live in a country town. the year before last we had a shocking bushfire season. my neighbours are actually volunteer firefighters and are quite amazing in their knowledge and dedication.

the death toll is well over 100 now down in victoria. Whole towns are wiped out and it has an almost apocalyptic feel to it.

i don't wish to seem cold or thoughtless with regard the escalating loss of life being reported, with the further possibility of arson incidents being a contributary factor making this event even more tragic.

but for the fortunate survivors having the prospect of rebuiding theirhomes, willsome have insurance cover, is insurance not possible because of the high risk, is it a cultural thing to not bother with insurance?

Well, apparently the same arsonist who lit the ones on Saturday may have lit more over the last day or so.
I don't see him (or her??) as a person who just wanted to create some chaos to watch on the news. I see him as a guy who had murderous intent when he lit those fires (He knew the conditions that day. He knew what may happen based on them).
He's up there with Martin Bryant, Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber IMO.

The real big danger in Canada is grassfires in Southern Alberta, especially around Lethbridge and Crowsnest. Fortunately, the winds are wet but if they ever turn dry, we better watch out. Grassfires can move faster than Eucalyptus fires.

So two members of the Commonwealth have fire storms.

Why not join forces and become one country called Canalia?

In the winter there / summer here, we could use your snow and ice to put out our fires. In the winter here / summer there, you could use our ocean water. It's funny how we don't have enough water to go around, and yet we are surrounded by it. Hence we need your snow. Hence . . . . the inception of the great nation of Canalia!

Haha!

Anyways, I've been hearing reports of charred remains being fused together from the heat? That... that.... is sad.

No; the fires are on the other side of Melbourne from Daylesford, so rest easy.

181 dead so far counted.

maybe a million wild animals were killed. i have most types of wildlife where i live like possums and noisy miners and parrikeets and rainbow lorrikeets and galahs and rosellas and cockatoos and mice and kookaburra's etc and i am greatly fond of them.
to think of animals like mine all running in a futile effort to save themselves and all being burnt to death is torture to my mind.

here are some shots of the fire a friend emailed to me.

I have really lousy tv reception so not seeing the pix, and being aspie, i feel rather unmoved.

The thing I dread is the media going beserk over it, you know how they drag it out for months and months, it becomes an 'media industry'. like famine fatigue, you know how you get sick of it.

I live in a highly bushfire prone area, all bush and steep hills, we're well overdue for a fire here according to the neighbours. I have my insurance paid up and actually, I'd prefer it if the place burnt down, I could use the money to rebuild a better house or something else.

I think the notion that all such fires are started by 'arsonists' is a social myth and an easy scapegoat, sure there's plenty of em about, but at those temperatures, it really could be started by a piece of broken glass, or anything.

yes they seem almost excited to have so much easy work to do.
they search for the most expressive and forlorn faces to interview.
there has already been clips wich are compiled to the song "he aint heavy he's my brother" and other ones compiled to the tune of "amazing graze".
how crass

well there is some speculation as to electricity arcing that may have caused some of the fires, and the investigation is in it's infancy, so it will be interesting to see if there is some unlikely point of origin (with accelerants).

there were no thunderstorms and the fires were not propagated from within houses, and 45 degrees is not that hot to encourage fires from broken glass.

the strength of the sun through a magnifying glass is no more on a 45 degree day as on a 25 degree day (at the same time in the season on a clear day).
it is ambient heat that causes the air to be heated to 45, but the suns rays are no more strong than they are on mild days.
atmospheric temperature is not magnifying of solar power.

it is likely to be deliberately lit,

with no human presence, a 45 degree day is uneventful unless you have a dry electrical storm.

double post

Last edited by Postperson on 12 Feb 2009, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.