Obama is a fraud (drug policy)
Seriously. I probably take it a step further though. I would be disappointed if he merely came out in opposition to it, but the manner in which he did, completely dismissive and insulting of those to even suggest the idea, that offended me.
If we're talking just about marijuana, I have to disagree. With other drugs there are some arguments to be made (although I would argue those points as well).
I agree with alcohol-induced, but not alcohol-based. However, this is different from marijuana, because marijuana users are not going to get in a fight. The drug pacifies people. This should show the absurdity of prohibition, in that we allow a dangerous substance like alcohol, but disallow something that makes people mellow.
Also, I have not seen a speakeasy in.......forever.
I think this is the crux of the misunderstanding. Nobody would complain about the taxation because the drug would cost a fraction of what it does now. The reason the cost of the drug is so high is because of the large number of middlemen and the criminality of it all. If you were to get the drug directly from the source, not only would you greatly reduce the price (even with >100% taxation), you legitimize the main export crop of some Central and South American countries, and we could use some friends down there.
If you disregard the billions upon billions in tax revenue, combined with the billions upon billions you spend on the drug war, then this would be true. As is, legalization would have a huge impact. It could get our economy back on track.
This is a bit more complicated. In conjunction with legalization, we would have to significantly change the way we do business with Mexico and other Central/South American countries. Right now we are basically king exploiter #1 of Mexico, which has contributed to the degradation of their country, to the point where drug gangs are the guys in charge. Yes, they would not be happy, but who cares what they think? If some heads need to roll, so be it, in the end Mexico would be far better for it.
As for within the US, if we only legalized marijuana, leaving other drugs illegal, there would still be plenty of money to be made in the black market. I really don't think it would be an issue to be honest.
Potheads dont fight? I know several who are raging nutters.. not when they HAVE it, but when they do not. The low between the highs is too much for them, and they become almost criminally enraged when they lack weed.
_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
If we're talking just about marijuana, I have to disagree. With other drugs there are some arguments to be made (although I would argue those points as well).
I agree with alcohol-induced, but not alcohol-based. However, this is different from marijuana, because marijuana users are not going to get in a fight. The drug pacifies people. This should show the absurdity of prohibition, in that we allow a dangerous substance like alcohol, but disallow something that makes people mellow.
Also, I have not seen a speakeasy in.......forever.
We should take note that the notorious gangsters in the United States in the early 1900s (e.g. Al Capone) were funded through illegal alcohol sales. Gangs today are funded through the illicit drug trade, yet not by alcohol. Suspiciously enough.
_________________
* here for the nachos.
According to his voting record as an Illinois senator and his comments on this subject prior to him being elected, where is the surprise on his stance? When a candidate offers "change", without any specifics and then people take that to represent all of the changes that they personally want, then disappointment is bound to occur.
Hook, line and sinker.
I would have voted for the man specifically on this subject but after finding out about his voting record (when he actually showed up, that is) which for some reason was not reported on by the cable news and other left leaning publications, I came to my senses (no pun intended). I think the best, for this subject, is for the Fed. to allow states more decision making powers concerning this subject but that contradicts the current trend in more Federal control on...well...everything.
I was incredibly optimistic to see the rise in support for the legalization of marijuana from a plethora of people from all walks of life. This represented real change, an HONEST, UNBIASED look at our drug policy and it's effects. To me, this is common sense. Prohibition doesn't work. Never has, never will. All drugs should be legalized, regulated and taxed.
Then, Obama, who had created a website specifically to reach out to Americans to get their views on positive changes to be made, holds a town forum to answer the questions raised on this website. One of the top questions across a number of topics was the legalization of marijuana.
Then, not only does he flippantly dismiss this common sense approach to economic and drug policy, he INSULTS the very people that have taken the time to try and enlighten him on this topic.
I had my reservations regarding the man prior to this, but this just takes the cake. Obama does not represent real change, and the tone of his response shows he is not nearly as open-minded as I had once hoped. Obama is a fraud.
You expect him to make a change over night? What's the matter with you? Nothing happens over night. It's like a child telling his parent he will stop sucking his thumb and then the mother expects he will stop over night but no he does not because it takes time to break the habit. So making a change takes time too.
Except when, y'know, he shows no sign of making changes. e.g., pursuing the status quo on warrantless wiretaps that their was a total media blackout or something on a few weeks ago.
_________________
* here for the nachos.
CanyonWind
Veteran
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Age: 74
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,656
Location: West of the Great Divide
I support legalizing weed, but I'm not certain the economic benefits would be all that significant. A lot of people are employed in the manufacture and distribution of alcohol and tobacco, and users of these drugs pay high taxes, but it hasn't saved the economy.
I expect weed would be about the same.
But Obama could have just said, "This is one of the issues we need to take a close look at. Our decisions need to be based on the best available scientific and medical information and our obligation to protect individual rights and freedoms."
If you're going to put somebody in prison, you better have a damn good reason. The a**hole didn't have to act like it's a joke when citizens demand liberty.
_________________
They murdered boys in Mississippi. They shot Medgar in the back.
Did you say that wasn't proper? Did you march out on the track?
You were quiet, just like mice. And now you say that we're not nice.
Well thank you buddy for your advice...
-Malvina
With right wing Senators calling for armed overthrow of the government, bankers looting the world, now is not a good time to give them more ammo.
The problem is in many parts, worse than the banks.
Truth is, pot heads forget to vote.
We also have Crack, Meth labs all over, and people taking drugs I have never heard of.
Alcohol taxes fund the governments, pot heads hardly drink.
Alcohol makes Political Donations.
People drink more, and the cheaper stuff during a recession, so taxes go up when other taxes go down.
What will happen this time is already happening, States are speeding up releasing prisoners.
This cuts back on staff, makes the courts consider who they can send to jail, and hence the police in who they can arrest.
Pot heads are just used to make the numbers, we need a better system.
Armed robbers are a dangerous lot, murders, and are worth the same points to police and courts as a pot head, and lets not forget who is behind this, the lawyers. Drug laws are lawyer welfare.
I think we need a better point system, with bonuses for police who catch armed robbers.
I recently reviewed the death row group in Texas. I found I could not make it in law enforcement. I would have put a bullet in them, two in the head.
I would say go the Methdone route, Medicalize it. All drug use, including those pushed by Psychiatrists, should be reviewed by an MD.
The active ingrediants in pot are available in pill form, so a script for weed could work.
All of those people who grew up in a world without drugs are dying off, they made some bad choices, we have some problems.
That has problems, Amphetimines and Barbituates were perscribed for nearly a third of America in the 60s, people who thought pot smokers should be shot. Besides that they drank, and lots died.
Lots are still knocking down a fifth a day and more, and have been for years.
We are a bunch of apes prone to addiction.
Besides lawyer welfare, the drug companies also are on the payoff lists, so with acohol, lawyers, drug companies paying off and bringing in taxes, change is unlikely.
Drugs are a problem in south Texas, as the gangs have automatic weapons, and shoot police on both sides of the border. Mexico has had to bring the army to the border, a violation of our agreement between Nations, and their Constitution, which forbids the army enforcing the laws. 7,000 dead in Juarez, something had to be done.
We have the same seperation between military and police. Police have to see the people as the enemy, we do not want the Army to think like that.
This is all very complex, and we have some very large problems before us. The World Economy.
John_Browning
Veteran
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range
Marijuana: One Cause of Schizophrenia
While it is very likely that other illicit drugs may cause some cases of schizophrenia, marijuana is by far the leading offender, perhaps in part due to it being the most popular and most heavily abused illicit drug. Marijuana causes temporary paranoid feelings in many users and mild perceptual hallucinations are common. However, the research evidence is extremely strong, proving beyond any reasonable doubt that marijuana causes a large number of cases of schizophrenia in the modern world. A number of studies have found marijuana has a stronger link to causing schizophrenia than other drugs. While some other causes of schizophrenia have decreased, e.g. brain injury and in utero infections, marijuana has made up the difference....
http://www.modern-psychiatry.com/marijuana2.htm
_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown
"A fear of weapons is a sign of ret*d sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud
CanyonWind
Veteran
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Age: 74
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,656
Location: West of the Great Divide
I was under the impression that schizophrenia was several orders of magnitude less common than marijuana use.
_________________
They murdered boys in Mississippi. They shot Medgar in the back.
Did you say that wasn't proper? Did you march out on the track?
You were quiet, just like mice. And now you say that we're not nice.
Well thank you buddy for your advice...
-Malvina
I was incredibly optimistic to see the rise in support for the legalization of marijuana from a plethora of people from all walks of life. This represented real change, an HONEST, UNBIASED look at our drug policy and it's effects. To me, this is common sense. Prohibition doesn't work. Never has, never will. All drugs should be legalized, regulated and taxed.
Then, Obama, who had created a website specifically to reach out to Americans to get their views on positive changes to be made, holds a town forum to answer the questions raised on this website. One of the top questions across a number of topics was the legalization of marijuana.
Then, not only does he flippantly dismiss this common sense approach to economic and drug policy, he INSULTS the very people that have taken the time to try and enlighten him on this topic.
I had my reservations regarding the man prior to this, but this just takes the cake. Obama does not represent real change, and the tone of his response shows he is not nearly as open-minded as I had once hoped. Obama is a fraud.
You expect him to make a change over night? What's the matter with you? Nothing happens over night. It's like a child telling his parent he will stop sucking his thumb and then the mother expects he will stop over night but no he does not because it takes time to break the habit. So making a change takes time too.
I'm not naive. I was not expecting weed to be legal anytime soon, everything in this thread is about his being so dismissive of the very idea. The argument for legalization is just so much stronger than the argument against, especially seeing how things are with the economy, having him take a hard-line stance (on the wrong side of the fence), is just incredibly disheartening.
While it is very likely that other illicit drugs may cause some cases of schizophrenia, marijuana is by far the leading offender, perhaps in part due to it being the most popular and most heavily abused illicit drug. Marijuana causes temporary paranoid feelings in many users and mild perceptual hallucinations are common. However, the research evidence is extremely strong, proving beyond any reasonable doubt that marijuana causes a large number of cases of schizophrenia in the modern world. A number of studies have found marijuana has a stronger link to causing schizophrenia than other drugs. While some other causes of schizophrenia have decreased, e.g. brain injury and in utero infections, marijuana has made up the difference....
http://www.modern-psychiatry.com/marijuana2.htm
Completely irrelevant. Heroin isn't very good for you, but you should have the legal right to use that too. You should have the legal right to drink Drano if that's what you'd like to do. The point is the government (any government) has absolutely no right to tell any individual what they can and cannot put in (or take out) of their body.
John_Browning
Veteran
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range
The problem is that giving people the liberty to use drugs infringes on the liberties of others.
_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown
"A fear of weapons is a sign of ret*d sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud
I've had a number of people say something similar in conversation. "He's a politician, he's gotta play the game". The thing is, he already won, now he has 4 years to do some good. If his goal is re-election, and appealing to the ignorant "middle" (represented by the schmucks in attendance that laughed and clapped at his comments), we have some serious problems ahead of us.[/quote]
This is the main problem in this area (and others too): I already pointed here to a report of the Drug Commission of the Royal Society for the encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce (RSA), a think tank founded 1754. In which a commission composed of academics, high ranking judges and police men, medical experts, etc. told the British Government very frankly that the whole approach of a total prohibition failed in all respects and is a monstrous waste of money. The findings of this report are transferable to all western societies:
http://www.rsadrugscommission.org/
---
I strongly assume that HM Government knows the findings of this report too well. But the government is too fearful of the headline in the tabloids and other right wing media - they need the votes.
---
I think the same true also for the US or any other western government.
