Explosion And Deaths At Ariana Grande Concert

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What about the vast majority of Muslim refugees who mean no harm to us? Are they supposed to be left to certain death because of the few who want to kill us?

By jihadists do you mean refugees? I mean yes it is easy and convenient that all the refugees would be jihadists/extremists and thus keeping them out will end terrorism but that unfortunately does not reflect reality. The vast majority of the refugees are really refugees who really are fleeing from real danger. Also how does treating them all like jihadists help to find the actual jihadists and deal with them? I mean which of the attacks in the past couple of years were carried out by Syrian refugees exactly?

Also you really think possible jihadists posing as refugees is a valid reason to just ignore the refugee crisis by refusing them all entry and deporting the ones already here back to Syria so they can be killed by jihadists they were trying to get away from?

Of course it can't just be an unregulated open door policy...and I don't really think anyone is suggesting anything like that. Obviously there needs to be good security and maybe background checks they'd have to go through to enter not just make it a free for all. But something rather than nothing needs done either way.

No I was referring to the 3k(currently being investigated)-23k(potential number) jihadists as identified in the article I post. Most of these folks are not refugees, lets make that clear again. These aren't doctors or lawyers or whatever from Sryia, most migrants are simply economic ones and the same is true even for a lot of ones actually fleeing the warzone because if you notice they all want to go one of a couple EU states with overly generous welfare so it's not just being safe but rather more about being comfortable. The biggest threat are not refugees but radicalized EU citizens, however importing more and more Muslims who cannot or do not want to integrate will worsen the situation regardless of their intentions being violent or not since it creates these enclaves separated off from the rest of the country and creates the environment where this radical ideology can thrive. The UK and Europe need to take the fight to the ideology, it's not just about stopping terrorist attacks but ridding the country of its extremist ideology.

As for refugees, they cannot be properly vetted as there are no records to prove who any of these people are. Go look up how many of these 'unaccompanied minors' are actually children, it's highly disturbing that they're putting grown men in schools with young teen girls. All of these refugees have long since left the battlefield by the time they show up in Europe, they're not any imminent danger. Taking in millions of them is just suicidal or plain dumb or both, Merkel is a disgraceful person using her power as Fuhrer of Europa to force mass immigration on all their member states altho these refugees want nothing to do with the poorer European countries. Why do they have to all be housed in communities? Why can't they build some huge refugee camp or even city on some island? An Egyptian billionaire is in fact proposing just that. http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/04/news/re ... llionaire/

There is already an unregulated open door policy, that's what Merkel did by inviting them in.

i come from a town with a large muslim population and to be honest i talked them more at school and i know some that work in mental health. and they are not all bad. they idea that they all religious is not true they drink alcohol and do what any white person would do but there is strict ones too but you can tell when they are like that. there a bit of anger in the community to them. people think there is too many mosques near me.

Only agree with Jacoby here, as he is not impervious to the excessive remain demands of deluded voters and putting aside subliminal interests for a second,- no one is buying into the ethos of whatever political or incorrect framework comes first, and judgements are informally defined by whatever other middle eastern master of slavery has told them.
Our tradition is steeped back into the archives of doing the right thing and outspoken rituals are often what got us into the mess in the first place, they told us to stay well out of it, we did not. Therefore, we'll have jihadis on our street everywhere, and your kids won't be safe inplaygrounds and museums anymore.
As for culture, people who deride someones background or indeed their future interests, were aware of their chums moral compass before they told them otherwise. So, as for parental guidance, where was this 20 odd year old lads parents when he was in doubt and being radicalised with all this false propaganda from the terrorists? He was backed into this farce regime that has killed over twenty innocent civillians and injured more than one hundred.

Hooliganism from remain rioters or half starved patriots are as much to blame as each other if they feel threatened by the others outshone or outclassed performance, and educating people on their moral high horses may make them take a look around at the devastation that has hit our streets.
A class system of high moral stature does not suit societys interests in the modern day era, neither does worshipping the ground on which an instructurally balanced deficit has been issued on by fat cats high loan interst sharks and greedy bankers who set out to ruin it.

Some people don't even have a clue about social cultural classes as they only seem to operate on one.

If you capitalise on one interest you destabilise another, and so on. I'd rather be on the side that takes notice of all inner struggles and values and future insights morals and behaviour.

Grand isolationism (which Trump and other right wing inspired political movements want to return to) doesn't work in a globalised capitalist marketplace. In the postcolonial era a number of powers moved in to try and fill in the power vacuum left behind. The United States opted for a non-interventionist isolationist policy with closed borders. As we know it didn't work in the 1930s (it's not going to work now). Trump tried and failed to close US border to a handful of rogue states and the US high court deemed it in breach of the...drumroll....US constitution...the same constitution your friend Jacoby hides behind whenever he espouses his other pet topics - gun laws or freedom of speech to say stuff that is otherwise deemed racist


The middle Eastern regimes you have alluded are certainly despotic medieval societies where slavery is still practiced and human rights violations are common (we all agree on this). So logically when people want to escape these wretched places the "right thing to do" as a human being is give them safe passage and shelter. It is wrong on a moral level to send them back to uncertain fate. Infact non-muslim dictatorships like Sri Lanka and Burma now gleefully torture and murdered ethnic minorities because they know these vulnerable people escape they will be put in detention in Australia and sent back to face the firing squad. That's "not" the right thing to do.


Probably ignorant much like the parents of IRA bombers who (strangely) nobody wanted to lock up even though their own Irish republican kids killed innocent civilians because they were also British.


Indeed, but it gets back to the fact in the UK (you live there I don't) imposes this class system and everyone happily falls into place. I worked with a gentleman who retired from the British public service in the 1980s, it was common practice in his department to have separate tea rooms for management and administrators. What was interesting is that it became a proxy for class separation as management included young "intern managers" who were drawn from Oxford or Cambridge who (miraculously) bypassed the normal social/hierarchical climbing that the administrators from less prosperous backgrounds had to undergo. He said the class bias was toxic but everyone "knew their place". Effectively the management tea room was made up of the upper class of society with very little if no social inclusion.


Feel free to make your own choices. But choose your side wisely. The society that jacoby wants to return to died in the 1950s along with the empires that inspired them. Society and culture evolves, globalisation is inevitable and it's happening right now as we debate this

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^^Globalisation has already opened up and threatened all class agendas, so abiding by a strict moral compass all the time wont even back the will and future choices democracy now and future generations will make, unless coming to terms with the long held wishes of tradition and upholding the court of law in a free thinking state, continues to get better and improve by de-escalating the threats imposed on by the chemical weapons establishment committees who obviously have given Iran the first free reign they've had in ages, issued under the last Obama government and is supposed to what?; stop terrorists from undermining their government and committing these vast numbers of attacks in the name of Allah and alquieda?

We have said we'll openly welcome child refugees fleeing from the war and put in the camps until safe passage can be granted by ourforeign aid workers, you cant grant sole power over derelict financial states when power has been abused and threatens world peace.
We've all seen the devastation and destruction there, no one more, than our newsteams who have to go there.
Howver, illegal or non illegal migrants coming to work should be granted the same permit restricions as anyone else, and not allow for free reign to destroy our border regulations. There is a reason we need to cut back and downsize, a small nation has to accept fewer obligations and apply only for what is applicable and sustainable in the current state of affairs.
The reasons that other E.U countries have managed to do this, is because they are built and adept for inner city migration, we have fewer cities, less land mass and only a divided border with southern ireland up in arms, but no one minds this because we still help one another.
Scotland has its own interests and can choose what it wants from an independant or non e.u state whichever vote they are fighting for.
Their trade will cease and they'll lose alot more than just dockyards and merchant orders, their agricultural lives will flounder on a collapsed market and industries which will continue to fold against the strength of the pound. I feel for those people who's government have not listened to the nation' nations outcry.


America has to contend with a former businessman turned president to deal with these extreme foreign affairs and no one at the moment in politics across the board has the stronger upper hand or courage to deal with the debates or negotiations that need to be discussed, especially at the G20 summit. Currently, global warming is having a vast effect on all our healths and this year, Trump has reversed all Paris climate change agreements and set us back in the stone age, that isnt right. Its never been right.
As far as decision making goes, I'm confident we'll deal with it the best way imaginable when the time comes.
I was disappointed by the tone of the debate the other night,and Paul Nuttall did it for me on one degree of strength and common untiy, but I also prefer Caroline Lucas for Greens. I do know that minor held status quo national interests wont plaster the squabble on foreign talks and, leading us out of the rack and ruin, that has held back our governing bodies and interests for so long.

The only way to make each country great is to prevent throwing up more and more obstacles in its path and bring down dictators. It usually means war for peace. I can live on fewer rations, and grow vegetables in a small allotment if allocated one.
Lives are meant for solid foundations and so few of us have a say already, so I agree, best to make each one of our choices count.

My choices are widely and decidely now part of the whole of the United Kingdom's future choices and I'll back, encourage, or disagree on anything spoken against it because I am a United Kingdom citizen. No more nor less.
If you don't live in the U.K and aren't a part of the judiciary system, why does our Australian point style immigration policy worry you so much?
For instance, if you lived here once and went to America, the land of new growth and opportunity in the eighties, would it now made you consider your expat status, such as dual citizenship..supposing you were one? Would your parents need to know you were safe and sound over the pond so that you could come home and tell them you're fine, but you were going to emigrate anyway because your roots are of less importance than the chance to reside in a foreign climate? Would it change your mindset now if you chose to stay where you were, then make you feel less of a patriot because it wrestled with your moral conscience to move back to your homeland?
Mo Farah has been wondering the same thing, but all point style system have alternate meanings and seeing as this thread is about the Manchester victims and families and honouring their call for justice, I'd say they'd want a fairer system in this country they live and breathe in.

I'll give you one sound example too.
When I was in cornwall recently, I stumbled across a woman in a village who had been English once, she lived in higher Croydon. She said she moved to the States in her twenties, no job description was mentioned, but she must have afforded some status from a privilledged background she once had, and married.
If this unproven marriage soon broke down, she decided then to move to Italy. She described it as somewhat of a hellhole of mainland Europe. Some industries had folded up during the recession and she couldn't get why then believed they would keep them going.
I thought, this woman is not only displaced on merit but hypocritical, discussing these people when she lives off their land and wears the clothes they wear too.




As I've touched on before, new growth defines strongholds in society but gets marked down by wrongdoers and collaborators, such as new style corporations or rolling governing council initiaves to limit the cost of personal savings and invest into care homes, ones which you'll never have to go into.
My country is of no great interest to you, you probably stopped investing in it long ago, and you think the foreigners should be made to feel better off than that of our own people who only strive to climb the housing ladder not collaborate with growing social inawareness of cyberplotting, senisitve religions and terrorism elsewhere?

Its not just about immigration and culture, its about the overall wellfare of our citizens and learning about environmental aspects and educating ourselves on how we cope with inequality is about the same as stating that the facts have and always will be wrong.

Class disntinction is brought about by people on higher wages looking down their noses at those on lower sums and driving them to the point of nervous collapse. If you interpret a wider skill shortage,especially on lower wages and high income tax you'll still get a higher death penalty which will be the dementia tax,read the Tory manifesto.
Corbyn wants to scrap trident and give home owners who've saved and bought their own home, a higher stamp duty through council tax thus, telling people right, this is what the deficit has cost you, even when half of them never when to a mortgage loan investment broker and he's punishing everyone who's worked for a living and scrapping the years of their retirement. He's a bitter deluded bloke. At seventy, he is still at work, not understanding which way the voters have swung to save themselves.

I hope the metropolitan police and Scotland Yard bring the perpetrators crimes who have committed such terrible attrocities to justice, you have no idea how it angers and upsets all the people never mind the front headlines.
If you still continue to debate that we should welcome active war minded terrorists and irannie somalian african criminals fleeing as refugees that are not from the camps they fled from, then you should go down to your local newshop near the coast and find which ones are plotting an explosive over here and stop wondering, about a new assassination plot to endanger the daily ritual task of reading whats on the headline of every paper that doesn't leave a good impression or filters their examples daily ritual killing of injustice on its m.ps, and citizens alike.

I acknowledge this is a topic you are passionate about and yes, as mentioned earlier, this is a matter for citizens in the UK to come to a decision over. We in the colonies are equally concerned but have to compromise with being humanitarian as well. I do acknowledge there are homeless and poor people who would be frustrated at refugees receiving free housing/benefits.

Coming back to the issue of the Manchester bombing, we know that perpatrators of bombing are organised within established networks in the UK. This is the same as Australia where the Australian federal police have broken terror rings before they acted on their plans. What is common is the networks have been nurtured in local mosques and have involved a mix of muslim converts and Australian born muslims. People you are alluding to slipping through refugee camps into the UK don't have access to weapons or terror networks so can only do random acts of violence (if that's what they choose to do)

The conundrum is whether real refugees should be blocked access to enter on the basis of a few bad apples? There is of course the ongoing issue of economic refugees. I don't pretend this is an easy problem to solve.

Quote from Daily Express Newspaper

Which Commonwealth citizens can vote?
Commonwealth migrants from 54 states - including ­Australia, Canada, India, Pakistan and Nigeria - could join the electoral roll as long are they are residents in the UK.

^^These countries also were allowed the Brexit vote last year, and so the must of jointly outvoted the remaining side of the vote as they make up vast numbers in our immigration system.

Expats could also access free benefits and the National Health service for nothing, and thats why people chose to leave the E.U, despite the focus on growing immigration issues for many people. Later forecasts predicted the aging populus voted out.

I acknowledge that this debate has started to outweigh the facts and given way to hypocrisy and middle class agendas.

Some Sun related Blog Spotting interest





Remainers have transformed into radical leftists. Some people would argue use violence to keep the haters out the country when really there are those of us who would rather keep the peace. Unfortunately, this isn't going to happen and disarming us will just make things terribly worse for ourselves.