11 Mar 2022, 4:16 pm
11 Mar 2022, 5:05 pm
11 Mar 2022, 5:16 pm
11 Mar 2022, 5:33 pm
11 Mar 2022, 8:04 pm
11 Mar 2022, 8:06 pm
11 Mar 2022, 8:21 pm
Mikah wrote:
it's the Western Empire US/NATO/EU bloc that has been expanding eastwards for many decades not the other way around.
Both sides play dirty political interference games.
Some countries remember the tyranny of Soviet occupation, so they naturally align themselves to a more democratic system rather than a satellite state system.
Apart from the intrigue, no one is forcing countries to apply for NATO status.
NATO doesn't invade other countries...errr...I mean in Europe.
11 Mar 2022, 8:24 pm
Mikah wrote:
magz wrote:
Mikah wrote:
He played by the rules
They were. They did nothing the Americans were not doing with money and diplomacy in Ukraine, until the Americans organised a nasty little revolution.
Underhanded political chicanery by both sides is "playing by the rulz"?
OK.
11 Mar 2022, 8:26 pm
Pepe wrote:
Mikah wrote:
magz wrote:
Mikah wrote:
He played by the rules
They were. They did nothing the Americans were not doing with money and diplomacy in Ukraine, until the Americans organised a nasty little revolution.
Underhanded political chicanery by both sides is "playing by the rulz"?
OK.
Precedent becomes rule, no?
11 Mar 2022, 8:31 pm
11 Mar 2022, 8:53 pm
Mikah wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
So what terrible thing(s) would have happened to Russia, if they hadn't invaded Ukraine? Especially compared to the terrible things that are happening to them from heavy sanctions?
If Ukraine is taken and turned, Russia goes from medium regional power to basically helpless against any sort of Western interference anywhere. Losing the Sevastopol naval base would cripple them in the Black Sea and having weapons and troops ready to roll right into their Eastern territory is an unacceptable weak point. They could do nothing without the threat of a fierce assault coming from the Ukraine corridor resulting in almost certain defeat or nuclear exchange. It would make them terminally weak, and the weak must suffer what they must. As for what that would mean who knows. The Yeltsin era was so bad for ordinary Russians, it made many nostalgic for the Soviet Union, it could potentially be much worse than that.
Russia will tolerate the sanctions just fine, they are better prepared than the media will let on, having lived with and prepared for more for years.
But Russia has the most nuclear weapons in the world.
Are you saying that any country would actually provoke that bear by an actual attack on Russian soil?
I find that hard to believe.
My understanding is that Russia/pootin chose not to become a NATO member.
He didn't want to play by the rules.
He was not rejected.
But I don't have a deep understanding of that particular situation.
I am in learning mode if I am allowed to be.
Also, consider:
Pootin has his big mate xi as an ally.
Who in the hell would want to antagonise that unholy alliance into a kinetic war?
pootin's security concerns don't sound that convincing to me, atm.
It still seems to be imperialistic empire-building to me, sorry.
11 Mar 2022, 9:01 pm
11 Mar 2022, 9:05 pm
11 Mar 2022, 10:11 pm
Pepe wrote:
Underhanded political chicanery by both sides is "playing by the rulz"?
OK.
OK.
I should remind myself not to use idioms on a forum filled with literal minded autists.
Pepe wrote:
It is pretty clear to me, that pootin's ego has something to do with it also.
How is this clear to you exactly?
Pepe wrote:
But Russia has the most nuclear weapons in the world.
Are you saying that any country would actually provoke that bear by an actual attack on Russian soil?
I find that hard to believe.
Are you saying that any country would actually provoke that bear by an actual attack on Russian soil?
I find that hard to believe.
Russia can't win a war against a nuclear armed power using nuclear weapons. That's just a way to make sure everyone loses.
Pepe wrote:
pootin's security concerns don't sound that convincing to me, atm.
It still seems to be imperialistic empire-building to me, sorry.
It still seems to be imperialistic empire-building to me, sorry.
Russia well knows it can't build an empire as things stand and it doesn't even make sense on Russia's part. If it isn't security concerns, what are they lacking that they need in Ukraine? Something worth burning all their bridges to the international community? When things reached a head in 2014, what did Russia want from Ukraine in exchange for its very generous offer? To remain neutral and non-aligned. Not become a Russian vassal.
I think perhaps this is why you need to see Putin as some sort of mentally ill egoist, because you can't actually reconcile the facts, logic and the propaganda and only a cartoon villain Putin makes sense to you. Despite your self-proclaimed resistance to it, I'm afraid you have been propagandised Pepe. Break free!
Pepe wrote:
But didn't you just say that major countries always try and improve their political sphere of influence?
I said nations always have interests and concerns abroad, not that they will always try to aggressively expand their influence.
11 Mar 2022, 10:20 pm
11 Mar 2022, 11:42 pm
Mikah wrote:
I think perhaps this is why you need to see Putin as some sort of mentally ill egoist, because you can't actually reconcile the facts, logic and the propaganda and only a cartoon villain Putin makes sense to you. Despite your self-proclaimed resistance to it, I'm afraid you have been propagandised Pepe. Break free!
Well, you have obviously missed the numerous posts where I categorically stated that, while pootin may be an intelligent psychopath, he is not insane.
Other people can confirm this.
The sooner you apologise, the more brownie points you get.
Mikah wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Underhanded political chicanery by both sides is "playing by the rulz"?
OK.
OK.
I should remind myself not to use idioms on a forum filled with literal minded autists.
Rather, you should provide better context.
Last edited by Pepe on 11 Mar 2022, 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
